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Rick3410

Simplicity Landlord charging system

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Rick3410

I'm in the process of restoring an old Landlord garden tractor. As near as I can tell, it is a hybrid of sorts and I'm not certain what the true model number is. For example, it is a hydrostatic drive and the hood decal indicates it's a model 3410. It has a Sundstrand hydro drive which I have been told did not come on a 3410 model. It originally had a 10 HP

Briggs and Stratton but that has been changed to a 16 HP B&S.

Now for the problem: My charging system is not working. When I first purchased the tractor I could not turn over the motor at all (when I bought it I was told all I needed was a carb and a battery). After checking the wiring system I found two issues. One, the solenoid was bad and two, there were two wires that were not connected but labeled as amp meter. The starter switch also fails to turn off the motor when removed. I changed the solenoid and tied the two amp meter wires together and ran a separate switch wire to ground and now have a running tractor that does not charge but runs quite well.

Upon further diagnosis, I have found that while the starter/generator works properly as a starter motor, there is no B+ output. Connecting the field to ground produces only 1-1/2 volts on my voltmeter. When the tractor is running, the voltage at the battery reads about 1 volt below the battery reading when everything is off. At this point I'm quite certain that the field coil on the generator is bad.

Here's my concern and where I think I need help: With the issue I found with the amp guage wires (as I said, I'm not sure what actual model tractor I'm dealing with), I can't help but wonder if the generator is wired properly. I've looked at various schematics (including the one in the large frame tractor manual by Simplicity) but, in my opinion, none of them are clear as to how this should be wired.

Does anyone out there have an easy to read, concise schematic that I can use to ring this tractor out? Also, based on the information I have provided, does anyone know what model tractor I am dealing with? Any help is greatly appreciated.

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GrincheyOne

First welcome to the club,here is a schematic, for an ignition/charging system that uses key start via solenoid...based on your verbiage, it sounds like you come from an electronics background.

Landlord Key start electrical.jpg

This should help you along the way to a solution. Also ZippoVarga has a couple of videos on rewiring a tractor on YouTube. If you PM him, he can provide the link.BTW there should be a contact "G" on the key switch that connects to ground, so the key in the "off" position should connect the "M" to "G" to kill the engine. That should be a 20A fuse, which can be replaced with a 20A circuit breaker ($10) from AutoZone.

57e05e28ae286_LandlordKeystartelectrical.jpg.f4aab8992cd57224dfd3d805186d5146.jpg

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Rick3410

Thank you for the schematic. It really helps. I've checked all of the wiring and everything is wired properly. The ammeter wires were marked backwards but for my purposes, this is not a problem.

I've installed a new generator and am still getting the same readings. About 1-1/2 volts from the generator output to ground. The voltage regulator must be the problem (seeing it's the only thing left in this process!).

Can you guys confirm this for me? In other words, is it common to see 1-1/2 volts for the generator output if the voltage regulator is not turning it on? Or, am I missing something in this analysis? Any help is appreciated.

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Rick3410

Thank you for the link. While informative, it still does not answer my questions. I am hesitant to purchase a voltage regulator until I'm sure I've got the problem diagnosed.

The wiring checks out and the starter/generator is new but it's giving me the same results as the old generator. No output and no output increase when I connect the field to ground. No indication that the load on the engine has increased either. According to all of the diagnostics I have read, this would indicate a bad generator. I've purchased a new one and it performs the same way. At this point I don't believe the generator is bad.

What would keep the generator from putting out voltage? If the voltage regulator was inoperative, would that keep the generator from producing voltage?

I removed the voltage regulator to do an inspection and found that debris from the field point was broken off and it appears would have kept the points closed. Could this have been the problem? I replaced the regulator with one from a parts tractor (condition of this regulator was unknown) but I am getting the same results. This regulator looked pretty clean inside and I saw no contact damage.

Anybody have ANY IDEAS?

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Rick3410

Well, the answer to my question is, YES! A bad voltage regulator can give you a no output reading at the generator A terminal and you will not see any voltage increase when you tie the field to ground. All of the test diagnostics that I read indicated that when these two things occur, you have a bad generator. Not necessarily. So for anyone reading this string, this will close the problem. The new regulator did the trick and I got a good tutorial on exactly how this charging system works through the advice provided here. I will also say the the Zippo Varga videos are excellent also. Thanks all.

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JohnFornaro

"The starter switch also fails to turn off the motor when removed."

Hey!  That's my problem too!  I'm repowering a 3310H into a 3316H, and had started a thread asking about that same issue.

As to the ammeter.  The wiring diagrams I've seen suggest that the ammeter be between the battery and the "B" terminal on the voltage regulator.  Check the polarity of the ammeter or else it will give a negative reading.

As to connecting the S/G field to ground.  I've only gotten a 2 point something volt read for the same connection.  The S/G doesn't seem to produce a full 12 volts.

I believe that the V/R on your tractor is the same as mine:  Delco-Remy 1118988.  Here's a link to an old D-R field service bulletin:

Reading your thread, tho, sounds like you had a bad V/R.  Mine sure looks clean and correct inside with no obvious defects, so I guess I'll try swapping it out.

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MrSteele
19 hours ago, JohnFornaro said:

The thread had bubbled to the top of the list, so I thought it was current!

Mine too. And from 2013? I have trouble finding anything from that long ago to look for reference articles, and this one just came up?

Wonder if he got it fixed....

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