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AimSmall10

Deutz Allis 1920 Ultima ISSUES

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AimSmall10

Okay, here's what I have and then I will tell you the problem(s) I am running into, and I hoping someone can help me out....before I shoot my tractor!!

I have a Deutz Allis 1920 Ultima. I believe it was made n 1989. Just bought it at an auction at the beginning of April. Cut the grass with it once and have had various problems with it since then. First, and this is the most pressing issue, is that it behaves as if it has no battery in it when I go to start it. The dash light come on, as do the headlights, but the motor will NOT turn over. Then again, sometimes it fires right up. I believe this is an electrical issue as it sparks at times and the battery cables get warm. I have tightened every connection I can find and that has not seemed to stave off the problem.

Next concern/issue the deck will start to smoke if I try to cut the grass shorter than highest or next to highest setting. It's a 60" deck. I have completely cleaned the deck of all grass and checked the gear box oil, and it appears to be full to its level.

Please have mercy on a brother. I am a city boy born and raised by a single mother and my dad never once showed me anything important in life. Well, except how to be a drunk and a woman beater. Not looking for any sympathy. I just want you to know my background so you will understand my inherent ignorance. I have moved my family to the country to get away from the stress of city living, and thus far it has been a good decision. Well with the exception of the mower issues. Long story shot, I/we have lived out in the country for almost 9 years and we have had nothing but mower problems since moving out here. It gets frustrating to say the least. I have had a new mower and the tranny went bad on it twice. I have a had a used Dixon ZTR that lived a good life, but it was at the end of its life when I acquired it and never drove properly. So now I am with this Deutz, which appeared to be a good machine at the auction, but I am beginning to wonder if I made a $750 mistake. I sure hope not, I really do not want to drop $4-5,000 on a newer mower, just because I am ignorant. Please Help, I am about to put this mower 6 feet under. BANG BANG BANG!!!

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OrangeMetalGuy

Welcome! Neither of those issues seem to me to be major.

Those tractors are built like tanks.

On the electrical issue, likely just a bad or dirty connection somewhere.

The deck issue sounds like a slipping belt. When you cut really low it puts more tension on the belt and if it is worn it will probably slip leading to the smoke.

I am not knowledgeable on the Ultimas but I am sure those who are will jump in - we will help get you going!

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AC82

Welcome to the club!

First off I just wanted to say that you gotta heck of a deal on that 1920 for $750. Around my area you would be very lucky to pick one up for under $2000.

We have a lot of guys here with the Deutz, Agco, and Simplicity equivalents to your tractor, they will probably know more than me.

For your starter problem I would check the starter/solenoid. Kinda sounds to me as if the starter is getting stuck.

And for your mower deck, take the belt off the blade arbors and make sure all the blades turn easy. I would also check the belt, it may just be time to replace. Once a belt gets smoked once or twice it seems to just make the issue more problematic.

Here is the Parts manual for your tractor:

http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/ifDCFO9brG2sF5DOh6lEP5NRQpe.pdf

And The Operator's Manual:

http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/heCyEN8csL3rE3CNg5kbp796Dq.pdf

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CarlH

The no crank sounds like a solenoid issue or one of the safety interlocks. Do you have any electrical experience? The solenoid is located behind the upper right (as you sit on the tractor) dash panel. When you have a no crank, try jumping around the solenoid (the 2 large posts)with a heavy wire or a screwdriver works for me.

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AimSmall10

WOW, thanks a ton for the warm response :D Wasn't sure what to expect, but I am very well pleased with that for sure. I get so tired of people tossing dirty looks and comments when my ignorance is shining through. Major learning curve for me and education and patience is what I need to receive.

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yukon

i had the same problem with my deutz allis if the connection wasnt clean and tight on the battery it would just click or once in a while the solinoid would just spin like the starter wont kick in.

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AimSmall10
quote:Originally posted by AC82

Welcome to the club!First off I just wanted to say that you gotta heck of a deal on that 1920 for $750. Around my area you would be very lucky to pick one up for under $2000.We have a lot of guys here with the Deutz, Agco, and Simplicity equivalents to your tractor, they will probably know more than me.For your starter problem I would check the starter/solenoid. Kinda sounds to me as if the starter is getting stuck.And for your mower deck, take the belt off the blade arbors and make sure all the blades turn easy. I would also check the belt, it may just be time to replace. Once a belt gets smoked once or twice it seems to just make the issue more problematic.Here is the Parts manual for your tractor:http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/ifDCFO9brG2sF5DOh6lEP5NRQpe.pdfAnd The Operator's Manual:http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/heCyEN8csL3rE3CNg5kbp796Dq.pdf


id="quote">
id="quote">I will check all those points for sure. How do I check the starter to see if it is stuck?Thanks a million times over for the links for the parts manual and the operator's manual. Those will save me a ton of research!!

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BLT

Also on the LH rail below the hood the should be a product number 169XXXX. With that we can zero in more on it, as to specific engine , etc.

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AimSmall10
quote:Originally posted by CarlH

The no crank sounds like a solenoid issue or one of the safety interlocks. Do you have any electrical experience? The solenoid is located behind the upper right (as you sit on the tractor) dash panel. When you have a no crank, try jumping around the solenoid (the 2 large posts)with a heavy wire or a screwdriver works for me.


id="quote">
id="quote">Sorry, I have got absolutely no electrical experience whatsoever. However, a friend of mine does and he tried to jump the solenoid like you suggested and that did nothing more than create spark show. BUT, could that mean that the solenoid is bad?

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AimSmall10
quote:Originally posted by BLT

Also on the LH rail below the hood the should be a product number 169XXXX. With that we can zero in more on it, as to specific engine , etc.


id="quote">
id="quote">It's a Deutz Allis 1920 Ultima. Model number is 1691392. Is that the number you are looking for?Also, the engine is a Kohler Magnum 20 HP

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Talntedmrgreen

If jumping the solenoid didn't do it, then as Dave says, check your electrical connections, especially at the battery. I drove an hour north today, to aid a friend who was ready to scrap an Allis I sold him a few years back. I popped the hot cable off, cleaned the connection, and it fired up without issue. I proceeded to drink his beer while he mowed 9" grass.

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BLT
Originally posted by AimSmall10
quote:
id="quote">Go here and type in that number http://www.simplicitymfg.com/us/en/support/manuals .That will get you correct part and OM. You can also download engine operators and service manuals from http://www.Kohlerengines.com . Later on you can get wire diagram and accessories book.

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AimSmall10
quote:Originally posted by Talntedmrgreen

If jumping the solenoid didn't do it, then as Dave says, check your electrical connections, especially at the battery. I drove an hour north today, to aid a friend who was ready to scrap an Allis I sold him a few years back. I popped the hot cable off, cleaned the connection, and it fired up without issue. I proceeded to drink his beer while he mowed 9" grass.


id="quote">
id="quote">I will check the connections again.

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BLT

Sometimes just tightening electrical connections is not the answer. Over time the terminals get a milky white film over them that acts as an insulator rather then a conductor and they need to be cleaned.

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AimSmall10

I'm asking out of complete ignorance here. Is it possible that I have a short in the battery, or could one of the battery cables be bad?

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BLT

You need a voltmeter to read what is going on at the battery posts.

Here is tutotial

Thaty are not all that expensive. You could get a resonable one at Radio Shack for around $25 . Once you have it you'll find uses for it.

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Willy

Make sure your ground cable is clean at the battery and also at the other end where it grounds to the frame. Sometimes you have to take them loose and wire brush or sand the crud off.

As for your belt smoking check the belt by all means but when you

mow you'll want to make sure your blades are sharp and the engine

should be wide open throttle

Good luck let us know how you make out.

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AC82

As you indicated earlier about the battery cables getting hot and sparking. That makes me think that it is either a loose and/or corroded connection, OR a starter that has a bad commentator bar. The bad commentator would cause the starter to work sometimes and not others. It's kinda like playing "Wheel of Fortune." It just depends on where the starter stops spinning.

I would do just like the other guys have suggested get a cheap multimeter and see if you are getting 12 Volts from ground to the terminal on the starter while someone is turning the key to "start."

Good luck!

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Dan123

Hi and welcome,

There are a couple of idler pulleys on your mower deck that tend to have the bearings go bad in them. They can put and extra load on that belt and make it run hot.

The part# for those pulleys is 1686674SM.

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AimSmall10

Okay, I will definitely be checking the electric issues with a voltmeter.

Now, let's say it is bad starter. Can those be rebuilt, or should I start looking for a new one? Again, I will check the connections, but I am pretty confident that I have gotten those checked, cleaned, and tightened down good. But ya never know until you take one more good look.

Not sure if I mentioned this earlier, but sometimes the mower starts right up like it is brand new. Well, I guess like new. I wouldn't know that from experiencing it new, LOL. Then other times, I have to check and make sure the battery hasn't been stolen.

On the deck belt, I will check that this evening, assuming I don't work until dark. Thanks for all the feedback guys. It is much appreciated.

One more question. Where is the best place to start looking for parts? I'd like to focus my attention to one or two places if possible. I don't have a ton of time to look for parts. Thanks again!!

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Ronald Hribar

When "jumping the solenoid " you will get sparks unless you make a solid connection.

Do You have a set of jumper cables? if so try this

If you can see the connection on the starter. Put the red cable on that connection. make sure cable is only on the nut of the connection

not touching anything else. put the other end on the postive post of the tractor battery.

Take the black cable and put it on the negative post of the same battery

and when you place the other end of on a bare metal spot on the tractor, the starter should work.

Stay away from the gas tank with your negative cable

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acfarmer

Sounds like your starter may be ready to go bad thats usually the way they act before going bad all together,also the solenoid on these newer styled tractors are pretty cheap built they will continue to make contact as they burn out but not very well and it will cause problems including what you have and will cause the starter to burn out also.All this can be fixed for less then $100 with parts off ebay.

For a solenoid I usually intall a better quality one.Next idea is there are alot of nice people on this forum and if you give your location if you're close to someone here they'd probably comeover and give you a hand.Also look around your neighborhood and see if there is someone with a bunch of old garden tractors sitting out back of their house they'll probably be glad to help.

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CarlH

Starting to sound like the starter to me.

quote:One more question. Where is the best place to start looking for parts? I'd like to focus my attention to one or two places if possible. I don't have a ton of time to look for parts. Thanks again!!id="quote">
id="quote">

For Kohler factory parts, I like OPEengines.com. Good prices, fast shipping. The solenoid is not a Kohler part. eBay, local garden tractor shop, or automotive parts house are possibilities.

The starter is not easy to access on the Kohler flat twins. Probably will need to at least unbolt and tilt the engine.

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