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Rick3410

Help identify my tractor

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Rick3410

I have a 7000 series Simplicity tractor that I believe was built with different model parts before I bought it. First, it is a Sundstrand Hydrostatic drive unit. The hood states it is a 3410H model but I have been told that 3410H did not use the Sundstrand hydro.

It has a 16 HP briggs and stratton engine but the person I bought it from told me it originally had a 10 HP briggs.

The sticker with the model number (in the area where a gear shift would be located) is missing.

I have a 3410 gear drive and the rear tires are definitely larger on this hydro unit.

Are there any other tell tale clues I can look for to help with identification?

Knowing what this really is should make parts shopping a lot easier.

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Kent

Perhaps a 7016H with a different hood?

Regarding rear wheels/tires. It was common for the 10HP models to have smaller wheels and tires throughout the years. Likely a combination of factors - less cost, and you didn't necessarily need the added traction with the smaller motor.

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Rick3410

I'm guessing it's probably not a 7016 because (I'm told) the previous owner replaced a 10HP with the existing 16HP. Of course there's no saying wether or not the ten horse he replaced was original (this thing is around 40 years old and could have gone through all sorts or morphs!). I guess in it's current configuration you could say it's a 7016?

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Kent
quote:Originally posted by Rick3410

I'm guessing it's probably not a 7016 because (I'm told) the previous owner replaced a 10HP with the existing 16HP. Of course there's no saying wether or not the ten horse he replaced was original (this thing is around 40 years old and could have gone through all sorts or morphs!). I guess in it's current configuration you could say it's a 7016?


id="quote">
id="quote">Off the top of my head, I don't recall a 10HP hydrostat model at all. 10HP machines were typically 3-speeds, though there were some 10HP 6-speeds, I think...

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Kent

Yeah, there were 3310H and 3410H models, after I looked into it, but no 7010H.

It's time for me to stop speculating about those RBTs -- I've never owned one than parts tractors to scavenge parts for an FDT from it.... :o:D

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Brettw

A few things. The 3410, 10 horse would have had the smaller tires, no headlights, probably not a hydro. These were the less expensive models. If they were a hydro, I think they would have been a 3410H, but I am not sure the 10 horse was even offered in a hydro. For instance, a 3415 hydro states right on the hood decal 3415H. And to my knowledge, yes the 3400 series came with the Vickers.

It is very possible you have a 7016 with a 3410 hood. That would be my guess, unless someone really did a bunch of transplants of trans and rear ends, engines, etc. Seems to me the hood change out would be the easiest answer to the question. The starter generator may hold some clues (or add some mystery) too. I thought the 7000 series did not have a starter/gen?

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Rick3410

Interesting, Brett. Is it possible that the starter/generator is strictly due to the B&S engine transplant? Another thing I noticed when I was getting this thing running was that the wiring harness has connections for an amp meter. I couldn't get it to start so I went digging into the harness and found these two wires market amp meter. I tied them together and everything worked. The dash I have does not have an amp meter hole. Maybe something else that was changed?

Judging by the was the Sundstrand looks, it appears to be original to the tractor. It's way too clean to have been transplanted.

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Rick3410

3410a.jpg

Here a pic with a view of the dash panel. As you can see there is no hole for an amp meter or an hour meter. There is a knock out for a rectangular hour meter that was never used. There is a fuse on the bottom right of the top panel and a generator light on the right side. I put the generator light in just to plug the hole. I thinking maybe this piece was changed also.

3410a.jpg.f947dd6de5bfe390231d73e9efcaa100.jpg

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Rick3410

So, could this thing really be a Sovereign? In '73, they came out with a 16 HP B&S with hydrostatic drive. Did they have an amp guage option and did they use a Sundstrand hydrostatic drive? When I do the full restoration on this, I want to make sure I decal it properly.

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Kent

If it is not a Sovereign, then someone has changed out both front and rear wheels/tires and the engine...

The Landlords, Barons and Sovereigns were essentially the same tractor, just "optioned" differently, just like cars often have an EX, LX and SX (or something similar) of the same basic car...

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rokon2813

I can't see any difference in the parts break downs, but if you could get 2 frames side by side, the 3400 and 7000 frames have different part numbers so there must be some minor difference to ID them by.

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Chris727

There was a 3410H. The mower deck is 3400 also. The 7000 decks had a different bail setup. The steering wheel is also 3400 as the 7000 had a black insert in the center. Definitely a franken tractor.

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Rick3410

The mower deck and the steering wheel are from a parts tractor (3410 gear) that I have. My original steering wheel was missing the center insert. I bought the spare parts tractor primarily for the deck and I needed a carburetor.

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rokon2813

I looked here for part numbers.

http://www.superxpower.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=SMP

The nice thing about this site is you don't need manufacturer numbers.

You can type in model 3410H and see that, or 7010 and see those.

You won't find any part numbers on the actual parts. You would have to find 2 tractors, and visually compare until you find a difference, then compare to yours.

Needle in a hay stack kind of thing.

I would sooner think someone swapped the hydros before swapping all the tin.

But since your looking at several owners over 40 years, who knows ??

3400 series had the generator light, 7000 had an amp gauge...

Some 7000's had starter generators, some had electric start...

So, they could have put a 7000 tranny in a 3400, or 3400 tin on a 7000, or parts from several tractors into 1 or, or, or,

I have a B10 built out of the parts bins, at least 8 different tractors.......

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Rick3410

Pretty complicated. I'm thinking the Sundstrand is just too clean to have been transplanted. Usually there are tell tale signs (mismatching bolts, tool scars, etc.) and this unit is just pristine. Is there somewhere I can go to find out which models and years used the Sundstrand hydro? Maybe I can back my into this using the hydro as a baseline.

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Kent
quote:Originally posted by Rick3410

Pretty complicated. I'm thinking the Sundstrand is just too clean to have been transplanted. Usually there are tell tale signs (mismatching bolts, tool scars, etc.) and this unit is just pristine. Is there somewhere I can go to find out which models and years used the Sundstrand hydro? Maybe I can back my into this using the hydro as a baseline.


id="quote">
id="quote">The easiest way to swap out trannies is to uncouple the driveshaft, clutch/brake and shift linkage, then remove the 4 bolts that bolt the bevel gear box to the front frame -- and swap the ENTIRE rear end of the machine. That typically doesn't leave visible tell-tale marks...

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Kent

On a related note - more of a question than anything else. Yet, it could provide a clue.

AFAIK, the Sundstrand tranny has a longer throw on the control lever than the Vickers.

Are the mounting holes on the side of the frames for the control levers in the same location for the different transmissions? Is it only a different length arm inside the RBT's frame?

I know when I transplanted a whole Sundstrand rear end into my FDT (using the method in my post above) that the mounting location on the side of the frame that worked fine for Vickers and variable speeds would NOT provide sufficient range of throw (i.e. linkage travel) for the Sundstrand to work properly in full forward and full reverse. I ended up cutting out that portion of the donor's frame and "scabbing" it onto the side of my frame to get sufficient travel...

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RayS

The System 7016H had a Sunstrand and from what I have seen that is where the Sundstrand was introduced. I have owned three 3415H`s and a 3416H they were all Vickers and the parts manuals don`t say otherwise. Also seen quite a few 3416H`s they were all Vickers as well. There was a 3310H.

Maybe the previous owner liked the 3400 series hoods.

The link below will give every Mfg. No.

http://www.simpletractors.com/Main/x-ref_table.htm

It sure is a nice looking tractor.

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Rick3410

Ray, if the 7016H was the intro to the Sundstrand, was there a ten horse model on these (7010H)? I think I'll check that out. As far as the hood goes, maybe the original one got damaged so he changed it. Is the 7016 the same physically as a 3410?

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Rick3410

Kent, you're saying that I should see a frame mod if it originally had a Vickers? That should be pretty obvious I would think.

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RickS

As I understand all 3400 series tractors had Vickers as well as the early 7000 series. The later 7000 series had sunstands.

I have had both a 3400 and a 7000 series and the two tractors are very similar in appearance. Note the frames could be different, motors different; but the overall look is the same or close.

Rick......

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