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perry

whats with the new gas ?

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perry

The new gas - high pump price , no smell , and no shelf life.

I have been seeing a lot of problems on my tractors and other small engines that are related to a bad or cheap gasoline . In my opinion they are making gas just potent enough to run your car.

While blowing out a carburetor , I had one week old gas shoot into my eye. first reaction as always to run to the sink . well i stopped halfway and thought were is the burn ? . no eye burning , does not burn your skin and no strong odor like gas use to have.

Picked up a fresh 5 gallons of gas yesterday and it smells stale to me.

in the past i have left gas in tractors over the winter and they start and run fine the follow spring. now it seems gas that is a few weeks to a month old is no good. my buddy said he seen a sign at the sthil dealer that said do not mix more gas than you can use in a month's time.

so whats your opinion on the new pump gas ?

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Kenh

The fuel these days is ruined at the refinery. The crude oil is heated to 700F (under pressure) to crack out everything they can get. IMO, this is the ruination of the "new fuel"

In the area I live in (North Central Iowa) most of our fuel comes from Oklahoma and south. It can spend up to 30 days in the pipeline and who know how long at the refinery before it hits the pipe. When I worked hauling fuel it was the general consensuses of the fuel suppliers that 60 days was the shelf life of fuel. So it looks to me that the fuel was at or near it's end of life when it hit the gas station.

One thing to watch is when you get gas out of a "blender" pump, (a pump that dispenses several grades of gas from one hose) you should put a gallon in your car first. The pump can hold a couple of quarts of the previous purchase, what ever it was. If you are only getting a gallon of gas, half of it could be exactly what you don't want. Not such a bit deal if you are buying 5 gallons or more at a time.

ken

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BLT

I have been a loyal customer of Sta-Bil for about as long as it is out and haven't had a carb issue that is related to crappy gasoline after a long storage . In the fall and on the engines I plan to lay for the winter months, I add a shot of Sta-Bil to each gas tank and run the engine until I can smell the enriched smell of the exhaust, and it is noticeable, and then store them. Each spring I am ready to go.

I see Briggs is coming out with their additive . http://www.startribune.com/business/214746781.html

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/faq.aspx#2

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Rick3410

It's ridiculous that we need to add chemicals to our gas to get the stuff to burn like it's supposed to. The price of gas is already high enough!

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HubbardRA

As usual, I am the oddball. I have never used a stabilizer. I have never had a problem with gasoline either. I keep gas in a can all winter, in a gas can and in the tanks of the tractors.

There is a lot of problems with engines that have a fixed jet carb (main jet is not adjustable). Almost all of the fuels nowadays have alcohol in them. Alcohol evaporates quickly and causes a film to form. This film makes the holes in the jets smaller so that the engines run leaner. The carbs are adjusted so lean from the factory that it takes almost nothing to make them run bad. My generator had that problem till I opened the main jet by .001 so that I could always run it without choke after starting and warmup. I also shut off the fuel and let it run till the engine quits so that there is no gas in the carb to evaporate and leave the deposits.

I made these changes after needing to remove the carb and clean it several times. The engine always would surge when running, and many times needed to be run at partial choke. The factory must have known about this problem since the choke had detents in six different positions. After I opened the jet the problem is gone.

I don't advise anyone to drill out a jet unless they fully understand the workings of a carburator and understand that if they drill too big the carb will need to be replaced.

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goatfarmer

Over the weekend, I saw "marine fuel" being sold in Michigan. 91 octane, supposedly no ethanol, didn't look at the price.

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perry
quote:Originally posted by RayS

Use a stabilizer.


id="quote">
id="quote">I will have to get some stabil . looks like a 32oz bottle will cover 80 gallons of gas.

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John_in_Oxford

I'm of an age where I can remember:

- Selling gas routinely for 29.9/gal, and being in a price war where I went down to 17.9/gal.

- Pumping gas manually up into a glass tank, then letting gravity feed it into our main Massey Harris tractor tank. And having to empty the sediment bowl daily. If not water, then rusty crap. Same thing at my Sunoco station - if not for hose filters, we would've have stopped as many cars running 190 as we boosted with 260.

- Endless scraping of varnish build-up when rebuildng carbs "back-in-the-day".

- Dry gas - Lordy, did we use to sell the dry gas in this part of Michigan - damp winters and all.

- Old gas. Leave gas in the combine or baler all winter, and come next season, it'd smell like kerosene, and run just about as well.

On balance, the plusses seem to cancel out the negatives of ethanol blended gasolines.

Life is not perfect - if you should wake up one day, and find that it is - please be advised, you are dead.

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rokon2813

Rod, you are not the only oddball. ;);)

I don't pay any attention to season, or how much gas is in the tank.

I use regular pump gas in everything, and parking a tractor for the winter is no different than parking one to use tomorrow.

Other than maybe charging a battery (rarely) after storage, I don't do anything different starting them up and running them either a day later, or 5 months later.

About the only difference is where they get parked, mostly outside in summer, and inside in winter.:o

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steve-wis

I run 10% ethenol regular gas in everything and use sta-bil in everything. My generator rarely runs except to start it and run for 15 minutes every three months or so. Once a year, I take out the gas and run it in the mowers and refill the generator with fresh gas and sta-bil. Only problem I have had gas-related was dirt.

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Allisgrandson

I haven't had much of a problem with gas either. I use a stabilizer, and have stored gas for over 6 months with no major problems. I have a 12hp that is cranky right now, but fuel quality doesn't seem to be my main problem. Fuel quantity and spark problems at the same time are killing me!

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jmhusby

Its kind of funny but the ethanol supporters and the Renewable Fuels Association say us dumb users are at fault cause we don't take care of our equiptment and do things like leaving the cap off the gasoline can and it collects water.Engine makers are exaggerating the problem. Briggs & Stratton is making a fuel additive for engines to help combat the problem. There was an article in todays paper. So remember if your mower doesn't start its YOUR fault:(:(:(

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Willy

Another oddball I use stabil only in my gen.

My tractors set inside and I have never had a fuel problem

even with my loader tractor that get used about three times

a year.

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B-16_IC

I too have never used fuel stabilizer, all my equipment gets 10% ethanol blend because I am cheap!:I Only real problem I have had with the new fuel going bad super quick is something stored outside. I admit I have more "stuff" than storage so a few things sit out. I think the sharp swings in temp of days of sun baking to night accelerate the aging process of fuel. Just my theory based on my expierience, not worth much but it's free.;)

Oh, and this new stuff stinks, as in literally. I remember filling the old Gambles push mower when I was a kid from the fuel barrel and enjoying the aroma, now I dread having to do fuel line or tank work on a car at work because the smell of the stuff gives me a headache.:Y

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sb64

well, I bought the marine type Sta-Bil, which is made to help with the ethanol problems, and that seems to work good. I also bought a lead additive for my bigger tractors. But, I haven't tried it yet. Also, I heard that the % of ethanol may increase in the gas by 2015. From what is now 10%, to raising it to 20 or 25% minimum! I don't know how true it is, but if that happens, then I will have to use a stabilizer or lead additive for every fill-up. The ethanol ruins the valve seats in older engines. I don't understand why they have to tamper with it? This is just my opinion and a little venting.8C

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Gordan

I just finished repowering my newly-acquired AGCO Allis Sovereign with a Vanguard set up for propane. I'm ready to say goodbye to all these problems (and, of course, say hello to a whole new set of them!)

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John_in_Oxford
quote:The ethanol ruins the valve seats in older engines. I don't understand why they have to tamper with it?id="quote">
id="quote">

...and stamps used to be 5 cents.

But ruins valve seats?

Oh, OK, you're just having a little fun with us - I get it now 666

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sb64

John, what are you talking about? I wasn't trying to be funny. The ethanol does ruin valve seats. My friend works on old engines, and he specifically told me that over time, the new gas with ethanol will ruin valve seats. Granted, all you have to do is put some grinding compound on them and reseat them, but that's quite a bit of work. When I said

quote:I don't understand why they have to tamper with it?id="quote">
id="quote">

What I meant was, why didn't they just keep the gas that had lead in it, instead of switching over to un-leaded crap.

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John_in_Oxford
Originally posted by sb64

John, what are you talking about? I wasn't trying to be funny. The ethanol does ruin valve seats. My friend works on old engines, and he specifically told me that over time, the new gas with ethanol will ruin valve seats. Granted, all you have to do is put some grinding compound on them and reseat them, but that's quite a bit of work. When I said

quote:
id="quote">Well now, I can't argue with your friend can I?Apparently, none of my old (or new for that matter) equipment have ever met your friend, so they just keep running merrily along. Some going on 70 years...As for the lead - you have never read/heard/been advised that it's - well - A DEADLY FRICKIN POISON? Same as with the lead we used to use in paint? That the reason they painted hulls with lead, lined them even with lead sheeting - is that the lead will 100% kill those gnarly barnacles? That we use steel shot now, because the lead shot would sicken and kill game fowl and domestic livestock alike?

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HubbardRA

I hate to say it, but B/S has always recommended the use of unleaded fuel in their engines. Amoco gasoline was unleaded when I was a kid, long before the other companies went that way.

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John_in_Oxford
quote:Originally posted by HubbardRA

I hate to say it, but B/S has always recommended the use of unleaded fuel in their engines. Amoco gasoline was unleaded when I was a kid, long before the other companies went that way.


id="quote">
id="quote">Amen, amen, amen! When the old saying "Fill 'er up with Ethyl" was coined that was referring to "tetraethyl lead". The only reasonable conclusion that even a millennial could come to - is the other gas didn't have lead.As for ethanol/alcohol harming valve seats - NO. Period.Not only was alcohol used as antifreeze in engines before the advent of Prestone (Glycol) for those WWII V-12 fighter engines, it was directly injected in those same motors to allow greater boost from the superchargers.The idea was so good, GM supplied the turbocharger equipped aluminum 215 CID V-8 they popped in the '63 Olds F85 with an alcohol tank - again to PROTECT THE ENGINE during increased boost.I know, I've worked on both the V-12 Allisons and RR Merlins - and have one of those GM aluminum engines sitting on the shop floor right now.

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leeave96

When I'm burning through gas in the Summer cutting grass, I use 10% ethanol gas - simply because it gets the job done and is lower in cost. If the gas is going to be in the tank for more than a month, it get's non-ethanol gas. Both types of gas get Stay-Bil and a bit of MMO. At the end of the season, I run the engine dry of gas. I've never had a problem doing this.

It's when I forget that I find myself in trouble...8C

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farmtoybuilder

It's a shame we have to pay outrageous prices and the fuel is Crap! Dang oil companies somehow keep getting away with it though. If we all didn't buy any for a day or 2 they might get the message! I've had to remove and clean out carbs on our push mower and a couple tractor's this spring As I forgot to put Stilbil in them And forgot to turn off fuel and run bowls dry last fall :( I put on new filters on them,drained and cleaned tanks.

Good thing is if you use it to start a fire it don't go boom like old gas did! :D I know I should have used it,but I didn't have any diesel fuel for the bush pile that day.

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