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Iceracer31

716 repower power issue !

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Iceracer31

Ok folks , Just signed up here ! Thanks for the sight !

My question is . I have repowered a 716 A/C with a 14 hp vanguard .It is a dog. When you put it into some heavier grass(48" deck ) . It just slows way down ,to the point it will kill the tractor. I have a 01 Broadmoor with a 16 hp vanguard that runs like a champ.Am i missing something here ? Why is this thing such a dog ? I realize the oem 16hp kohler put out alot more torque,than the vanguard but c'mon . These machines came with 12 , 14, 16 hp motors that had no problem with power !

Does that old bevel gear box eat up that much power ?? It seems like it has a struggle getting up to speed without the blades being on ??? i'm thinking about getting a 16hp carb for it , or is there any way i can get more power out of this thing ?? Thanks for any help !

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Iceracer31

thanks guys . checked the gov setting. its fine . I've been thinking the same thing with the fuel delivery. Fuel pump seem to have good flow and pumping good ! This is a new engine with a new fuel filter from the start ,but i'm wondering if there's something plugged in the carb ,or partially plugged ?? spark plugs don't look leaned out . censored1.gif!

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PGL

Does the engine run fine in neutral? Is this a repower on a tractor that ran OK with the old engine that gave out? Do all the mowing rotating parts turn OK (e.g. is there a bad bearing that slows the blades)? Wish we could see/hear what is happening.

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JimDk

Try it with one plug wire off at a time to see if you have a non- working cylinder. Friends had one that would foul one plug, but would still run. As soon as they tried to mow, it would die.

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Iceracer31

thanks for all the replies ! This tractor is my sister's/bro in law's. Her husband is not very mechanically inclined and has a hard time checking oil. When i got the thing to see why it didn't start.It turned over and over, and over,.......... After hitting the key for only a second .The rod was in about 5 pieces with a hole in the case.So that is why i put the 14hp vanguard in it !

As far as the rest of the tractor.It seems to be ok. I can push in the clutch and the engine doesn't seem to speed up any , so i'm thinking the gearbox,etc. must be ok.No real whines ,etc. coming from gearbox or the hydro pump.Checked all the fluid levels in the gearbox and hydro.All good .This thing is a real head scratcher ! ! !

I can run it up to speed. But put it into some taller grass and it falls on its face .:(

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pungo

PGL may be right, sounds like a horsepower robbing deck spindle,a belt thats too tight or a load of dry/wet grass under the deck.

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Iceracer31

pungo , you maybe onto something ! knowing my bro in law .As i said to my sister.The first thing you need to buy for him for x-mas is a POWER WASHER !!! I swear he never cleans this thing ! I may take off the blade cover and do some inspecting .He had drive belt on the wrong pulley .....geez ! i guess everything is on the table at this point .I've never run into something like this ,but i will get to the bottom of it ! Again thanks for the input ! ! !

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powerking_one

Dan,

When you say then engine slows down, is the governor not maintaning the set speed? Have you checked the full throttle RPM speed with like one of these laser tachometers (below)? Even if the governor is working correctly it could be you are way below the 3600 RPM manufacturer's rated setting. One could then see how then engine would die out during a high load due to the lower RPM's and reduced available torque conditions.

These laser tachometers are a nice tool to have in one's toolbox and are very precise, not to mention afforable. They take out all of the guess-work for measuring & setting high speed max and idle RPM questions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-Digital-Laser-Photo-Tachometer-Non-Contact-RPM-Tester-Tach-Meter-/350840289879?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51afb5fa57#ht_1505wt_681

Tom (PK)

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Iceracer31

Thanks Tom (PK) um i'm kinda old school i guess . i still have the old vibra tach ! lol :D gonna have to get one of those laser tachs .Price is right for sure !

(When you say then engine slows down, is the governor not maintaning the set speed?)

It seems like when you put the blades in motion.The governor is at full open position ,but it just can't keep the rpm's up.It bogs down.Put it in tall grass and it gets worse Just seems like its run out of power or somehow its under too heavy a load ! Thats why in a previous post i asked if the old bevel gear box draws that much power.I didn't think they did .But it sure acts like that .At idle it sits and runs fine .Throttle it up and it seems to struggle or is a little slow to hit max rpm's. There's something drawing power from this thing .Just haven't gotten to the bottom of it YET .But i will......

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427435

14 hp should be plenty---------if the governor is opening full as soon as it falls off 3500/3600 rpm. Years ago, I put a 48" deck under a 710 and it played with it in normal lawn conditions. I also cut an overgrown ball field with it, which made it work. That did require a lower gear.

There are probably posts that better tell one how to adjust the governor, but I've just loosened the clamp for the arm that comes off the internal governor shaft and tried different positions. Some positions turn the engine into a dog.

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Iceracer31

Both . If i really try to speed up(go faster ) with the hydro .it drops off and you have to bring the hydro handle back and slow down for it to catch back up. When i crank up the blades it gets worse .Put it into some good thick Wi. Grass and she slows way down and eventually would die if you didn't pull it back to a point of snail speed of travel . If that all makes sense !

feels like the horse that wasn't big enough to pull the wagon ! ! :)

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BLT

With the throttle stop at WOT, you have loosened up throttle arm and rotated shaft in same direction until shaft doesn't move and then tightened it down again?

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pungo

Ice that last post told it all.

Bevel to Trans belt slipping.

Bevel to PTO belt slipping

PTo to deck belt slipping

Deck drive arbor locking up

Arbor drive belt slipping or too tight

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Iceracer31

BLT 10-4 checked it .Was right on ....

Pungo , i haven't gotten the deck cover off yet to check that belt ,etc. but it could be some of those that you listed no doubt !

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maxtorman1234

The 14HP vanguard v-twin only puts out the same torque as a 12HP kohler single. I have found the torque curves and compared them both @ 22ftlbs.

I could see the 48" deck giving it a good workout, but i'd have to agree, sounds like something locking up. I can't see anything being wrong with a new engine, but I guess you never know.

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HubbardRA

I think you have a problem with the mower deck.

I drove my 48 inch deck with a 10 Hp engine for three years and now mow my lawn with a 12 Hp engine driving the 48 inch deck. Never saw much difference between the two engines myself.

Check to see if a spindle on the deck is locked up or if one of the belts is going around something that it is rubbing on. A dragging bearing or a rubbing belt can drag an engine down and even kill it.

I had a bearing go out on a starter-generator a couple weeks ago and it killed my engine.

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427435
quote:Originally posted by Iceracer31

Both . If i really try to speed up(go faster ) with the hydro .it drops off and you have to bring the hydro handle back and slow down for it to catch back up. When i crank up the blades it gets worse .Put it into some good thick Wi. Grass and she slows way down and eventually would die if you didn't pull it back to a point of snail speed of travel . If that all makes sense !feels like the horse that wasn't big enough to pull the wagon ! ! :)


id="quote">
id="quote">If I understand this correctly, the engine bogs down when the mower is OFF and you just try to increase travel speed.If that is correct, the problem is with the engine-----not the mower. Again, I think you have a governor problem or, maybe, a fuel supply problem. Have someone walk/run along side the engine (with the hood up) and see if the throttle level quickly opens full when the engine is bogging. If it does, then I would consider the fuel supply.

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HubbardRA

I had a 14 Hp Vanguard on a Murray for a while. They have great power when running correctly. I replaced a 12 with it and it definitely had much more power.

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