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jbrukardt

The next failure in my Sunstar Saga... electrical

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jbrukardt

So, last time i checked in with you guys, i was having oil foiled plug problems. After seeing the machine was spitting oil out of the breather tube (and directly into the carburetor, the oil foiling made sense. I was essentially feeding my carb an oil and gas mix).

So, i tear it down to the breather/oil gallery compartment, and replace the breather reed, the oil gallery gasket, and the oil gallery cover, put the old oil sentry back in, it was working fine.

Get it all back together... and it wont start. Wont even crank.

Prior to this point, it cranked 100% of the time. No problems at all.

Heres what I disassembled

1) Breather assembly

2) unbolted the linkage assembly and governor arm

3) Removed the carb

Im trying to figure out where anything electrical could have gone bad in those steps....

The engine will either just click, or rrrr-rrr-rrrr (coming from the starter.. no turnover of the actual engine at all)

I tested the battery, 12.70v and 525 cca, no problem there. Checked all my wiring.

With the oil sentry light plugged in, i get a red "oil" light on the dash, without, i dont. Seems to make no difference in starting.

Ideas:

1) The oil sentry has triggered a relay someplace that has to be reset? Im not sure exactly how these things work.

2) Governor settings got messed up during reassembly? Does make sense as to it not even cranking

3) Something completely unrelated, a mouse chewed a wire someplace?

4) Something way more serious... like the engine being bound up? It wasnt when i pulled it into the garage. Worst condition there was very hard starts due to oil foiled plugs.

I know im not at the same skill level as a lot of you guys, and I always appreciate the advice and patience you show. I try to rule out the simple stuff first, but i can always appreciate a few more minds looking. Anything you can offer would be great. The repair i did should have changed absolutely zero electrically, i dont get it.

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Brettw

I know this sounds bad, but are you sure all the nanny's are OK? PTO is off, etc? It happens. Don't ask me how I know.

Nevermind. I read further, you do have some life. I would check the main ground.

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BLT

What's your product mumber of tractor?

Have you taken a jumper wire from the (+) side of battery to where the blue starter signal wire on solenoid to see if starter will turn over? Connect jumper in place blue wire and with the other end, flash it across (+) post to see if starter motors. If it does you my need a relay to to get a better voltage source in place of blue wire.

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jbrukardt
quote:Originally posted by BLT

What's your product mumber of tractor?Have you taken a jumper wire from the (+) side of battery to where the blue starter signal wire on solenoid to see if starter will turn over? Connect jumper in place blue wire and with the other end to see if starter motors. If it does you my need a relay to to get a better voltage source in place of blue wire.


id="quote">
id="quote">im sorry, should have included all that.Relevant details.Agco Allis 1920H, 1692141 with a Kohler Command CH20 in it. will short the positive terminal to the blue wire (tiny wire) as a test

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jbrukardt
quote:Originally posted by Brettw

I know this sounds bad, but are you sure all the nanny's are OK? PTO is off, etc? It happens. Don't ask me how I know.Nevermind. I read further, you do have some life. I would check the main ground.


id="quote">
id="quote">its a good question to ask, i was thinking the same thing myself earlier (did i leave the front pto on when i turned it off or something...)Went back down to the barn to check, I did not. Seat sensor is good too. I get nothing when the seat is up, some small bit when its down

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Brettw

If you are getting a click or anything at all out of the starter, the circuits are working. Another quick question, battery? If something was left on the battery may be near dead? I would first check connections and then make sure the battery is fully charged. Batteries have the darndest habit of dying at the most inopportune times, for no reason whatsoever, simply to mess with you.

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jbrukardt

I tested the voltage on the battery myself, and then took it to the auto store to get the CCA tested. It tested at 525, all good and clear.

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SmilinSam

Like Blt indicated above, could be a voltage drop by the time it gets to the tab on the solenoid.

I have a 98 legacy with a kawasaki lq, and a cub cadet super with a command v-twin, on both you had to turn the key about fifty times before it would engage the starter. The rest of the time there would be just a slight clicking sound. Put in a bosch relay and pulled 12v direct off the hot side of the solenoid to energize it when the key was turned. Both tractors start flawlessy now when key is turned.

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jbrukardt

its dark down there now (no electricity down in the barn), but ill certainly jumper the positive to the blue wire connect point as my next step.

I dont understand why this would just start out of the blue after i did an unrelated repair though, thats what confuses me. Any way (without pulling the engine) to see if i could have a physical obstruction somehow? Something that would keep the starter from turning over the engine?

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SmilinSam

Just take your time and go at it one system at a time one section ata a time.

If the engine readily turns over whe you put juice to the tab on the solenoid, then you kow the problem is in the starting circuit from the keyswitch to the solenoid.

If not, then you have to look into other things.

Diagnosis can be frustrating, and Im no expert by any means. Blt is the one who put me onto the bosch relay fix.

Loads of good people in here willing to try and help. Just be patient with yourself and with us.

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SmilinSam

Also, you metioned tractor being in a barn, eletrical tests can make sparks. Dry hay goes up fast. Take care..

I only mention this beause we had a kitchen fire here last year, wouldnt wish a fire on anyone.

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jbrukardt

good advice. Thankfully my hay "barn" (i use the term loosely, its a shed with only 50ish bales) is on the other side of the property. this one is my wood/mechanical shop. Or at least it will be once i get electricity out there.

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Tonyvdb

I would still try giving the battery a little charge. I have a 7117 and if the battery is even discharged a little it won't turn the engine over, just click, click. Either but a booster on it or charger and it starts right up.

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PeppyDan

I didn't notice it mentioned so I will, try cleaning both battery terminals and posts. Sometimes they can look ok but will not be making full conductance.

Dan

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jbrukardt

i scrubbed them up good, that was a thought of mine.

What concerns me is ... Why with my multimeter am i getting 12.5+ V, but with the on dash voltage meter (you can see it in the video) its down at 5-8 volts...

Somewhere between the battery and the meter, im getting a massive voltage drop, an unintended ground, something. I still look to the oil sentry, as thats the only "electrical" thing i changed. I dont understand how it works, if it flips a relay someplace preventing starting that could have gotten stuck, etc.

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jbrukardt
quote:Originally posted by Tonyvdb

I would still try giving the battery a little charge. I have a 7117 and if the battery is even discharged a little it won't turn the engine over, just click, click. Either but a booster on it or charger and it starts right up.


id="quote">
id="quote">Ill drop it on my charger tonight. I figured with showing 12.7v and 525 CCA at the auto store tester it was "fully charged". But giving it some extra cant hurt.

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acfarmer

Garden tractor battery cables are usually very poor quality and I've solved a lot of electrical problems by replacing them with good ones.

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rpickle

My newer Sovereign would act/sound similar to your Sunstar. I found the safety switch for the hydro lever (neutral) was bad. Replaced it and has been fine all summer. The switch was good enough to pass some voltage but not enough to crank the engine.

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jbrukardt
quote:Originally posted by rpickle

My newer Sovereign would act/sound similar to your Sunstar. I found the safety switch for the hydro lever (neutral) was bad. Replaced it and has been fine all summer. The switch was good enough to pass some voltage but not enough to crank the engine.


id="quote">
id="quote">did yours just die out of the blue?

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Gordan

Not to hijack this, but - my late-model Sovereign's PTO, trans and seat safety switches seem to be working properly because there will be no cranking when either of those conditions are present, but the magneto kill wire seems to be grounding at all times. I have to disconnect it from the engine in order to run. Any ideas what might be wrong? I thought that the wiring that grounds the magneto and the one that grounds the starter are spliced at the interlock, so it doesn't make sense to have one but not the other ground out.

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jbrukardt

No go on jumping the solenoid. Just "clicks" like before. Seems even weaker than yesterday..

I dont trust this darn battery. Even though it reads good volts with my multimeter, and read good amps at the auto store, my charger says its only 25% charged.

Its a cheap trickle charger, far below the quality of the gear the auto store has.. but thats not right.

Giving it an 8 hour charge now.

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