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Architectdave

BGB Rebuild Update with pics 11-13-13

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Architectdave

Any last words of advice before I tear into my BGB this Friday night? I've got all the bearings seals and some extra shims to rebuild my 3314 bgb. I've read the instructions, I've seen the tutorial. I'm hoping to the box out Friday night and rebuild it Saturday - Sunday and get it back together for Sunday afternoon.

I have that problem where the bolts loosen up after hard plowing should I get some new split washers or use lock tight when I reassemble it? Anything else to do While I'm in there?

Any and all advice appreciated.

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RickS

Dave,

I have heard lock washers can lose there temper which in turn affects their ability to lock.

That said if plowing is causing the bolts to loosen I think I would new lock washers and lock tight. Just make sure you don't use the kind that requires heat to remove them.

Rick......

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Willy
quote:Originally posted by JohnFornaro

Huh. I find beer to be more of a lubricant than a tightener. But hey. You guys know more about tractors than I do.


id="quote">
id="quote">I don't know about that, I've been pretty tight on beer, a time or three!:o)

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Brettw
quote:Huh. I find beer to be more of a lubricant than a tightener.id="quote">
id="quote">

Thank you, John, for reinforcing my point. Lubrication of BGB's is considerably more important than tightening them.

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GLPointon

Use a touque wrench if you have access to one. You want things tight but not to crack the casting...

...and yes, Locktite on the frame bolts for sure

Good luck sm01 (the benchwork is the fun part)

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huffy
quote:Originally posted by RickS

I have heard lock washers can lose there temper which in turn affects their ability to lock.


id="quote">
id="quote">I would also add that cheap lock washers, such as the ones they sell at Menards and a few other places, don't lock worth a darn.

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MrSteele

Beer makes the job easier. If you have a wee bit of homemade alcohol, moonshine, white lightening..whatever, is even a better lube than beer, and works quicker, usually.

But, beer will work. Be careful to shim to take enough slack out.

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Architectdave

Well this project is not going as planned.... Here is Gramps old girl ready for the BGB rebuild.

bgb1.jpg

Here is a shot of the Center PTO and the rear vacuum pullies.

bgb3.jpg

Here is a shot of the Hydro drive pulley. Notice the relationship of the pulleyy to the end of the shaft and the threads.

bgb5.jpg

Here is where it gets messy. Starting from left to right on this shaft: threads, space, pulley with no key, space, cotter pin, the inner race of a roller bearing, needle bearing. NO SPACER. Needless to say this is a mess.

bgb4.jpg

Here are a couple of shots of the BGB out of the tractor and opened up. Notice the Hydro drive pulley was mangled trying to remove it. Also notice the pulley is nowhere near the key location. More on this later.

bgb7.jpg

bgb8.jpg

This shot shows the BGB rebuilt and temporarily installed back in the tractor. I had to use my vacuum pulley to mock this up. The spacer is not in place as I have to order one but here is my dilemma.The hydro drive pulley does not align with the woodruff key slot when installed and aligned with the idler and hydro unit. I assume this pulley is supposed to install like Greg shows in his tech article with the spacer pulley and nut on the end. It is impossible to do this as it's shown. Since I don't have the OEM spacer or pulley I'm at a bit of a loss. Does anyone with a 3300 hydro series have a picture that shows this relationship? What am I missing here? I did verify the size and length of the shaft. It is the correct length for this tractor according to the current simplicity parts manual.Help would be appreciated. Thanks.

bgb10.jpg

bgb1.jpg.539099cb847a6b8d5d192c5faff72590.jpg

bgb3.jpg.2efe6a1b2cd4ed66c0da698884ab9f05.jpg

bgb5.jpg.9af922346f6511edfc05cb362515c137.jpg

bgb4.jpg.c8551c82e71e962e12bbcea098ebd782.jpg

bgb7.jpg.edcd48ffcb8a04bb50cf55502e36fe8f.jpg

bgb8.jpg.5bc3244ebeefa17ebbd6a9b0831ecb33.jpg

bgb10.jpg.03d5840b3998ede5c47dce27d29adfd3.jpg

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Brettw

I will try to look at the SIL's 3400 series. Not sure if it's the same but I will try to get a peak. If I had to guess, I would say that that shaft and / or BGB is incorrect for that application. It simply looks too long and almost as if it is set up for a variable drive pulley setup and not a hydro.

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Architectdave

Brett, I was thinking the same thing but when I enter the Simplicity part number from my manual Part "P" 172208 I get no listing for it then I go to the parts diagrams on Jacks small engines and I get "Simplicity 2172207SM SHAFT 0.8748DIA 13.31" and the shaft I have is in fact 13.31" long....

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PhanDad

Here's some pics of the 3416 I recently parted out:

IMG_7551a.jpg

IMG_7555a.jpg

Didn't take a pic from the hydro drive side. Also this tractor had the cone clutch installed. Base on the pics, it looks like your shaft isn't far enough left when looking from behind. Your cross shaft install looks balanced, vs The 3416 which is off center to the left. I still have the box, but can't get to it until tomorrow. If you need any more pics or measurements, let me know.

IMG_7551a.jpg.741ce36755b7fc9a8cee647f52bc7d43.jpg

IMG_7555a.jpg.a9c42e212a9eed6e14b6010dd3a50668.jpg

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Brettw

Dave:

But where are you getting your parts #'s from? The ID# on the tractor? If it were a variable or 6 speed at sometime, and someone converted it to a hydro by swapping rear ends, that may be the issue? BGB is correct for the tractor, but not the rear end that was replaced? Just thinkin' of all possibilities, not sayin' this is the case.

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Architectdave

Perry, I torched the heck out of it, it was purely a function of my gramps Gerry-rigged system that made it nearly impossible to come off. I'm using never seize when I put the new pulley on.

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PhanDad

Found another couple of pics of another 3416H that shows the drive side pulley installed:

3416_0003.jpg

hydro_0004.jpg

Reread this statement you made above:Starting from left to right on this shaft: threads, space, pulley with no key, space, cotter pin, the inner race of a roller bearing, needle bearing. There shouldn't be a cotter pin, inner race...etc. I've never seen a variable speed or 2 speed BGB close up, but I'm thinking Brett may be on to something that this BGB or cross shaft was adapted to fit the hydro. The extra parts in your description were part of the adaption. And another clue that Brett is corect is the part number for a A/C built Homelite T-10 BGB cross shaft is 1607132 which crosses to part number 2172207SM, the same part number as you listed above. The T-10 has a dual range transmission. My A/C built T-12 which has a Vickers hydro and no clone clutch might be the same as the BGB cross shaft in a 3300 series tractor. It's part number is 0173966; unfortunately it doesn't cross to anything any longer.

3416_0003.jpg.978fe48f725397caaf8c197542dd6c91.jpg

hydro_0004.jpg.f257c4769d70ba17b39e026373aa5da4.jpg

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Architectdave
quote:Originally posted by MrSteele

I don't have the same tractor, but, I see a problem, looks like an instruction book in the background.


id="quote">
id="quote">Those are actually notes for bending up rocker panels I make and sell for old Hondas.....Phandad thanks for the photos, This shaft is not the one for the tractor. I'm going to order the spacer and another shim then I will hit this again next weekend. I may have my buddy shorten the shaft and cut me a keyway into the shaft or somehow work with I've got. All that stuff in there was something my grandfather did when he worked on it years ago.

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SmilinSam

Looks like a gearbox from a variable speed 3300 series. They had longer shafts on the tranny drive side.

Whats the shaft diameter on each side? I may have something out on the shelf I could send..

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perry
quote:Originally posted by Architectdave

Perry,. I'm using never seize when I put the new pulley on.


id="quote">
id="quote">YES Anti-sieze is a must. one tractor that i bought the old guy had used Anti-sieze on everything. The front PTO pulley pretty much came off the crank by hand. it was great working on that tractor.

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Architectdave
quote:Originally posted by SmilinSam

Looks like a gearbox from a variable speed 3300 series. They had longer shafts on the tranny drive side.Whats the shaft diameter on each side? I may have something out on the shelf I could send..


id="quote">
id="quote">Both shafts are 7/8" consistently.

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