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JoggerFogger

Vickers Hydrostatic T66x in a 3415H

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JoggerFogger

So I helped my dad buy this tractor and now it won't move.

I made sure that the pump is getting fluid, and that the linkages are working. We started by making sure that nothing was plugged, bypassed the fluid cooler, pulled the filter, etc. The pump part of the transmission is moving fluid. That part I know.

The belt drive is fully engaged to the pump part of the transmission.

The pump sounds like it's struggling (loaded) when you push the lever for forward or reverse. The tractor just doesn't move.

Yes, the Neutral, tow, release thingy is engaged.

Here's a video of the tractor running. I was moving the lever from full reverse to full forward and all you can hear is the pump struggling. Link below.

Do I need to rebuild the pump? What could be the problem here?

We just bought this thing a month ago, and it worked fine in the driveway. It had a hard time climbing the ramp to get in the truck, but I thought we would sort it out. Now the problem is worse.

The previous owner talked about rebuilding the valve body in the transmission. Either it's time for it to be rebuilt again, or maybe he did it wrong?

Before I jump in and start tearing this thing apart, not knowing anything about it, I was just wondering if anyone had a quick fix. Like there's some other check valve that's just not working? Some simple fix?

Thanks,

Kevin

Here's the video:

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JoggerFogger

Yes, it drove when we bought it. But it wasn't strong. Like it wouldn't climb the ramp to my truck.

Axle is working. We actually can drive it around a little, but it feels like it's fighting itself, and there's no reverse at all. Any hill or bump will make it struggle or stop.

I also noticed that if you push the go lever forward and rev the engine it produces some resistance from the lever itself like it wants to go back to neutral. Like it's building up pressure and it takes more hand force to push the lever forward.

I'm thinking the valve body needs to be rebuilt.

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JoggerFogger

In an effort to remove all other factors I removed the oil cooler and pulled the oil filter. We left the lid off the canister reservoir so we could see the oil moving around. Unless it was some serious cavitation inside, it was bled out.

I don't think that was it because it was putting a load on the engine, just not doing anything toward moving the transmission.

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JoggerFogger

Neutral lever engaged.

And by the way, thank you all for your suggestions.

I don't think my dad will be too keen on buying an whole other tractor. I'm pretty sure the problem is in the pump/motor part of the Vickers Hydrostatic Transmission part.

I was playing around with anything I could while we were troubleshooting . I noticed with the neutral lever in neutral, it still spins the brake drum (sometimes). So wherever the fault is, it's before the transaxle assembly.

This all leads me to think that the problem in in the hydro drive. I was looking at some pictures and descriptions of the internals of the Vickers unit and, really not knowing much at all how it works, I'm guessing it's the motor part of the unit. The Vickers unit is two parts, the pump and the motor.

At this point, if the easiest solution is to replace the whole unit, I'm going to remove it and take it apart to see if I can figure out what's wrong. Maybe when I tear it down I'll have a "Ah Ha!" moment. Like some sort of failed seal or a chunk of debris got past the filter?

I just feel bad because I talked my dad into buying this thing, and it's a total flop of a purchase. I guess I'm going to learn something about rebuilding hydraulic pumps.

Thanks,

Kevin

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JoggerFogger

Yes, very expensive. Like let's part out the tractor and start again expensive. But if the Vickers is kaput, I've got nothing to lose, and there's no harm in taking it apart and doing some investigating. I might learn a thing or two, and maybe I'll find an easy fix! :Q

I don't see any for sale here, on ebay, or anywhere else. I did find an old post here from 2010 saying there was one on ebay at the time. No idea how much or how often they're on the market.

There were some metal particles in the bottom of the fluid reservoir, and I assume there's some damage somewhere inside.

I found a bunch of pictures of a T66x here:

http://gardentractortalk.com/forums/topic/19027-whats-inside-a-t66x/

And I found the chapter in my service manual for taking apart the Vickers. I also found a member here that rebuilt his T66x named Dave (dave45056) and has a parts list and source for parts. I emailed him, sent a PM, and posted on one of his posts.

I found this really cool video on youtube that explains how a generic hydrostatic drive works. It was like a light bulb going off for me to understand how these pumps work in general.

There's a great tutorial on this website filled with pictures of damaged parts. http://proactivefluidpower.com/piston_pump_failures.htm

I'm just going to take the thing apart and see what I can learn.

-Kevin

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JoggerFogger
quote:by Dave45056Internally, there are lots of things that can get worn and refuse to seal... Not just in the pumps and motor, but in the relief and check valves, too.id="quote">
id="quote">

I'm hoping for a failed relief or check valve.

I really don't know what I'm looking for, but I'll either be a hero or fail miserably. Either way, I hope to learn something.

-Kevin

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JimDk

Kevin,

If you are not a stickler for originality, before replacing with another Vickers, you might consider a Sundstrand. They are more likely available and more dependable due to the age of the Vickers.

You would need both side plates and all control parts between the BGB and transaxle. A little fabricating might be required to make the linkages work. I would hesitate to put in a used Vickers that I had not operated previously.

I own a HB-212 with a Vickers. It acts somewhat like yours, at times, but is still usable. I plan to replace it with a Sundstrand when it dies.

I'm just brainstorming here. At this point, you have many questions and few answers. A good Vickers is a joy to use, but probably expensive to fix if it has major problems.

Good luck.

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JoggerFogger
quote:Originally posted by JimDk

Kevin,If you are not a stickler for originality, before replacing with another Vickers, you might consider a Sundstrand.


id="quote">
id="quote">I have no problems with swapping out parts that will work. I'm by no means a purist, and this tractor doesn't have any sentimental value to me or my father. (unlike the 64 landlord I have)Is there a Sunstrand that will bolt to the transaxle? I have no problems adapting the controls to work.I'm looking for the cheapest and easiest solution. If I can find a simple solution for this unit we have, I'm sure that will be the easiest path.I emailed Pro-Active Fluid Power just because I found a link here, and they sent me a .pdf exploded diagram with all the parts labeled. Not sure why I can't upload it here, but here's one page:

Vickers%2520Hydro%2520Drive%2520parts%2520clip.PNGThey said that they have a lot of the common parts for a unit like this. We'll see once I have it on the bench torn down.-Kevin

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JimDk

I don't think a Sundstrand will bolt to your transaxle. Your plan to repair the Vickers may be your best solution.

When the time comes to upgrade my HB-212, I plan to change the whole rear end. I have already bought a Sov 7116 for parts. I find parts tractors are my most economical solution for major repairs.

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PhanDad

See these posts about rebuilding the Vickers pump/motor:

Old site links (pics in post):

http://www.simpletractors.net/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=105518&SearchTerms=hydro

http://www.simpletractors.net/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=104899&SearchTerms=hydro

NOTE: TO GET THE ABOVE LINKS TO WORK, YOU HAVE TO MANUALLY REPLACE THE ".COM" WITH ".NET" (I have no idea why the above link address changes from ".net" to ".com" when you click on it) 

 

New site links (pics by link - valid link, but pic doesn't appear in post):

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/31810-vickers-charge-pump/

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/31592-rebuilding-vickers-hydro/

 

Edited by PhanDad
fixed links

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JoggerFogger

Bill,

Thanks so much!

I must be doing something wrong with my search technique. I searched for 15 different terms and never found these posts. I even went to Dave45056's profile, then searched by his name. I think I'm not tapping into the "Archived" posts that seem to be anything older than 2 years?

I hope Dave is still around here. I'd love to pick his brain. I do promise that if I'm as successful as he was in repairing his Vickers, I will post the step by step pictures on how to do it, and what to look for.

Thanks so much.

-Kevin

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rickpilgrim

If you want, I have 2 complete Vickers hydro units, unit 1 has not been run in 12 yrs, worked good with the usual oil leakage( rock shaft and hose weapage) but has a bent axle. You don't notice it while driving but the wheel had a wobble in it.

Unit 2 is in my 3416H and works very good, the hoses should be replaced soon as they are wet but pulled our not running trucks around with ease. I would be willing to sell either one or both for a reasonable offer, am in Wausau, WI

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JohnFornaro

Amazing info about the Vickers tranny.

Anybody have any hints on saving threads? Sometime WinXP will save a HTML thread correctly, other times not.

I'm still trying to understand the "magic" of hydrostatic drive.

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JoggerFogger
quote:Originally posted by rickpilgrim

I would be willing to sell either one or both for a reasonable offer, am in Wausau, WI


id="quote">
id="quote">PM Sent. Thanks!!! that might be easier that the rebuild.-Kevin

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JoggerFogger

I emailed him yesterday about it. I think I'm going to go tomorrow and get it.

I'd take it just for the tiller alone.

I believe it has a sunstrand hydro, but at that price, I could start over. No spark doesn't scare me at all on that one.

Roseburg is 145 miles away. It's a 2:45 drive each way.

My wife is going to friggen kill me. She wants me to get rid of the one I have. sm01

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JoggerFogger

I picked up that 7016H today. Thought it was a gamble buying a machine that doesn't run, but judging by the guy's house and garage, it was well cared for, just sat for a while.Swapped in a good battery, hit the points with some sandpaper and Voila! That was easy. Wish all my quests were that fortuitous.

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