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SimplicityAddict

Baron 3414 Starter/Generator Problem

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SimplicityAddict

My 3414 Baron had the original starter which quit charging recently. I pulled the starter and took it to an alternator shop and he declared it dead. I bought a new one from the guy (Delco original P/N 1101689), installed it on the tractor, started it normally, and it fried in about 30 minutes. I mean it burned up to the point there were pieces loose inside. I took it back to the alternator shop and he replaced it (and asked what the heck I did to it).

Thinking maybe the regulator was an issue, I put my other regulator on the tractor with the new starter. It started the tractor fine, but soon the red light (no charge) was back on. Since I live in the woods and leaves are a big deal, I ran the tractor most of the day without shutting it off to get the leaves up.

I did not polarize the generator through the regulator either time. I didn't know it was necessary (and I'm still not sure it is based on comments here).

Now the newest starter will not start the tractor. I checked the regulator, and I am not getting continuity between the battery and generator posts with the tractor not running. I think that is the correct condition, since that circuit only closes once the generator is sending current to the battery after it is rotating. So the regulator seems to be functioning properly.

The solenoid is working properly.

The battery is fine (had it checked by a battery guy just in case).

I have the repair manual for the tractor and it indicates the switch circuits. My switch does not follow the circuits listed in the manual, but the start function closes the solenoid and the run function re-opens the solenoid.

So, everything seems to be working but I continue to fry starters.

Any idea what is going on here? I am hard pressed to believe I was sold two faulty starter/generators.

The alternator guy said he won't warranty another one. I don't want to buy a replacement only to fry that one too.

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Willy

Were they new or rebuilt S/G's.

I can't think of a thing that would cause them to cook,

unless you had a dead short and you should have had some

smoke, sparks or some kind of clue as to what was causing

the problem.

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RayS

It is polarized as soon as you turn the key. I am not an electrician contact John unterwagner (midnightpumpkin) he can explain. Do you own a voltmeter if not, it maybe a good time to invest in one at harbor freight or Walmart for less than $20 bucks and get a repair manual for the tractor.

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RayS
quote:Originally posted by SimplicityAddict

I have both. That is how I concluded that the rest of the circuit was operating properly (switch/regulator/solenoid).


id="quote">
id="quote">Well, if you have a voltmeter, manual with the wiring diagram and it is hooked up correctly and the "(switch/regulator/solenoid)". I don`t see what the problem is unless it is internal on the starter generators that you have been buying.

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SimplicityAddict

That's the screwy part. What are the odds of getting two bad starter/generators. The original lasted 40 years. The new ones about an hour.

Everything is wired correctly and as far as I can tell everything in the circuit is working properly other than the starter.

The second new starter will spin slowly when I turn the key with the belt off and tapping the end plate with a rubber mallet. I can stop the pulley with a little pressure. It has no torque to speak of.

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johnmonkey

Well I just had some problems with my s/g on my 3410 (now with a 16hp b&S). The warning light would not turn off. It turned out to be a bad ground. We removed the cables and used emery cloth on all of the electrical fittings, sheetmetal and cleaned the battery terminals. Voila she charges just like she should. I can even run my head lights! with the charge she is pulling. jh

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Tarheel

As simple as it sounds, Testing a SG is as easy as slipping the belt off, spinning the starter and then grounding the field.

If the fields are working, the SG will slow down noticeably.

As for it not turning to begin with, I'd hook the jumper cables to it from a car or running tractor.

The trouble with a volt meter test is that you can pull 12 volts and not half an amp. Most of us have had a car or tractor at some time or another where you get in and the lights, horn etc all work but the second you hit the switch for the starter, everything goes dead.

Running the jumper cables you can start with nothing in the loop (IE strait to the housing and Armature. If it works back up on the hot lead to the next place which is the outbound side of the start switch.

May not work for everyone but it works for me.

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HubbardRA

Check the wiring of the solenoid again. If the solenoid is wired to be self-energizing when the engine starts, then the starter will be powered all the time and burn up the starter windings. When you release the key, the solenoid "must" release the power from the starter. I had one that failed internally. It would energize from the start position, but not release when the key returned to run. If you put the wires that power the engine on the wrong side of the solenoid, it will feed power through the switch to the solenoid even when in the run position. All this needs to be checked, not just if the solenoid actuates and has power across the large terminals.

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SimplicityAddict

I checked the solenoid for continuity. When the switch is in the start position, the solenoid engages and I get continuity. When I release the switch (run position) the solenoid disengages and there is no continuity across the large poles. I did not change the wiring to the solenoid (couldn't really based on cable lengths). But I've replace everything else in the circuit (switch and regulator) and other than possibly two bad S/Gs this is the last thing that would cause the problem.

I currently have the S/G off the tractor and will energize it using starter cables.

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Willy

I would unhook the wires from the S/G and jumper it from

a good battery to see if she will spin.

If not you can fault the S/G, if it spins you have a bad

ground and you can start cleaning cable ends.

Keep it simple!!

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SimplicityAddict

I hooked up the S/G to a known good battery directly and it won't spin or spins very slowly with no torque when I spin the pulley.

It just blows me away that I got two bad S/Gs.

Oh well, I'll try a third time.

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