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Mike_H

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Mike_H

Hi All,

Just a quick note to say hi. I recently acquired a 1977 Simplicity 7016H (1690202) that is in reasonable shape. Its a basket case though, and the engine was pulled when I picked it up. Lost spark, then the previous owner (a friend of mine) lost interest after tearing in to it for the umpteenth time. He bought a newer Simplicity, and was going to scrap this one. I gave him a case of beer for it! Came with a 42" deck too.

Anyway, I'm going through her, and checking things out, and fixing the issues I'm finding. I'm also giving her a nice, new coat of paint. Not a full restoration, just cleaning the years of gunk and grease off, and repairing/repainting the rust. A big part of the problems this tractor was having is the harness. Its been patched and spliced multiple times, and not well sealed against dirt and moisture. Needless to say, its gotta go. I've got the owner's manual, with the wiring diagram, so I'm going to rebuild the harness myself, but I'm having trouble finding a couple of connectors. They are the ones that go to the PTO and Transmission safety switches. Anyone know what the style is called, or can hook me up with a part number? I have one connector body remaining, but its pretty trashed, and I can't read anything on it. The rest have been cut off, and the switches were bypassed.

Here is a picture of the tractor when I picked her up.

IMG_20131121_212026_881_zps2dcbde71.jpg

Thanks in advance!

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Chris727

I don't believe its available separate through Simplicity but its a common connector. It takes a special tool to crimp the terminals to the wires, I have not had much luck with the process. The terminals then snap into the connector body. Go to a John Deere dealer and try part # R77480, I believe it is the same connector. Most JD dealers will stock them and its less than a dollar.

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Mike_H
quote:Originally posted by Chris727

I don't believe its available separate through Simplicity but its a common connector. It takes a special tool to crimp the terminals to the wires, I have not had much luck with the process. The terminals then snap into the connector body. Go to a John Deere dealer and try part # R77480, I believe it is the same connector. Most JD dealers will stock them and its less than a dollar.


id="quote">
id="quote">Thanks Chris...there just happens to be a Mean Greene dealer on my way home. I'll stop in, and hopefully they can hook me up...They should have the terminals too? I have a pair of pliers for the terminals...

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Mike_H

Well, I stopped at a deere dealership on the way home, and the part listed by Chris is indeed the same. They did not have any in stock, and could only order by package quantity of 60. So I ordered the connector bodies online. The dealership did have the correct terminals, so I bought them, hopefully my crimp pliers will work. I have a couple different styles of specialty crimps for tinkering on electronics. Thanks again for all who responded.

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Mike_H

So, I finished up the wire harness last night, and decided tonight I'd start working on the engine. I Pulled the head off, and immediately noticed that the top of the piston was marked 0.020. I assume that means its already been bored 20 over. Its also got some weird erosion on it...see the pictures attached. Are there 30 over piston assemblies available? I've only been able to find 20 over. I think a 20 over will be ok...the cylinder isn't scored, but is does need to be honed. Made a couple more measurements, and the crank journal is about 10 thou undersized! I found a conn rod that is 20 undersized, aftermarket because the Briggs one is no longer produced.

My thought process is clean the block up, and get the valves sealed again (intake gap was double what its supposed to be, but I think its just carbon build-up), Install a new 20 over piston and rings, in the honed cylinder. Have the crank machined to 20 under size, and install the new rod. Does this sound ok? I believe that is as good as I'll be able to fix it.

Here are the pictures of the piston

IMG_20131206_202101_336_zpsebf28e18.jpg

IMG_20131206_202047_265_zps83139982.jpg

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timflury

The best supplier that I have dealt with for connectors, pins, and crimpers online has been Newarkinone.com

Powerandsignal.com will also have what's needed for connector rebuilds.

The bad part is that they have, or at least once have had, a $25.00 minimum order.

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Mike_H

I have also thought about sleeving it, but again, I don't know if that is possible. I gotta find a machine shop close to me, and talk it over with them. Repower isn't really an option, I don't want to spend the dough on a new motor, and an old motor isn't necessarily any better than the one I have.

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1meanZ

With a piston that looks like that, I'd be really surprised if the bore is still round and not egg shaped. Maybe you already measured and I'm wrong, but that crown does not look like it led a happy life. The last thing you want do do is rebuild the engine and have a smoking mess because the bore isn't true. Also by the time you add up parts and machine work, I bet you'll be closer to a modern repower than you may think. Or at least close enough for the line to start getting blurry. Is an obsolete rebuilt engine that costs 75% of a new or lightly used modern engine a good value? Something to consider.

With that being said, one of my favorite things about my T-16H is the way the big 16hp briggs shakes the whole tractor at idle. I like the way it sounds, I like the torque it has. I like the way it sounds when the starter is rolling it over, etc. It just wouldn't be the same tractor with a V-twin Kohler.

My point is, if originality is important to you stick with the original engine. However if thats not a big deal to you, or if you like the twin cylinder engines of the later tractors, don't dismiss a repower because it may be a better value for your money.

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Mike_H

The biggest issue with a repower is that this particular tractor has a front PTO, and all the snowblowers for this guy are front PTO driven. I've not seen a modern engine with crank output on both ends.

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PGL

I think you've got to figure out why the piston is so skewed before you go too far. If not you, a good engine machine shop should provide advice. Maybe it happened before the last rebuild and the bore has been corrected. If not you might have to remove too much for even a 0,30 over; hope not. You might find a good used 16 if necessary.

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Mike_H

The piston is weird. Its only missing that little bit, about 20° around the crown. The rest of it looks almost new. No heavy scoring, only a little detonation on the top. FWIW, that chewed up area was inline with the head, toward the valves. I'll know more next week, after I bring my measurement tools home from work. I only have a caliper here at the house. I've got a full micrometer set, and telecoping ID gages. I'll be able to figure out that cylinder in no time flat Monday.

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ReedS

That is one odd looking piston! Perhaps it is just a poor casting, but my first though was the engine sat for some time, and the piston corroded and the engine run afterwards unknowingly. I'd think that would leave a mark on the bore though! Could also have been a cooling issue at one time or another!

In my experience the briggs engines seem to be fairly tolerant of a bit of looseness, which I think would be preferred over overly tight on the specs as these air cooled beasts need room to expand when they heat up!

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RayS

You won`t be able to put a Kohler Command in there without some serious frame cutting and modifications and then you probably still wouldn`t be able to close the hood. The Command is just bigger than a Honda and Vanguard twins with the same horse power. Doesn`t mean they don`t produce the same horse power or torque. They just do it in a smaller foot print. It isn`t a chevy or ford thing:D.

In a 7016 with a Command you would run out of realstate fast for the muffler and at the back side of motor near the gas tank. However, a Briggs Vanguard or a Honda GX 610 or GX 620 will drop in with some holes being drilled for the engine to be fastened down. Also the Vanguard and Honda would need to be spaced up 7/8" because of crankshaft height differences between them and the Briggs 16 hp. I would consider the Honda over rebuilding the gas dripper. For as long as they made that motor you think they could have solved that issue.

I really like the cast iron 16hp Briggs (I own 6 or 8 of them) and would prefer it any day over a K series, but I like the modern day twins better then any of them.

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tripleguy
quote:Originally posted by Mike_H

The biggest issue with a repower is that this particular tractor has a front PTO, and all the snowblowers for this guy are front PTO driven. I've not seen a modern engine with crank output on both ends.


id="quote">
id="quote">Easy enough to just get a different hitch and run the blower from teh mid-PTO. You'll need a new hitch, belt and idler pulley and that's about it. If you've already got the front PTO mount, you can take a pulley from that. $100 should do it + your belt.

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rickpilgrim

http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/356447-SIM3314-1R1.html?sc=17&category=1710986

Here's a practical repower that is a good value as all the mounting/ wiring/adapting and exhaust and everything is included and all the little stuff is taken care of. Even your front pto can be used with this. By the time you buy a different and do all the work to fit it this kit will come out dollars and sense ahead of any other repower unless you have your own machine shop. I have put a Techumseh OH180, Kohler Ch18, Robin EH64 and a Honda 18 hp in in RBT's and none were as easy or inexpensive or as asteticly pleasing as this kit. That pic you show is the correct repower but if you compare it to the repower kit I posted you can see all the parts you will need to make or find to fit that in.

You have to take the cost of that kit and compare it to what the old Briggs rebuild costs and to be fair you have to include rebuilt start/gen and new belt if your comparing money wise.

Rebuilding the old Briggs is another way, I have a sleeved welded crank engine still. running and we are commercial mowing/ snow removal so rebuilds are good when done right with 30hr oil changes can last a long time. There are benifits to both ways.

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Mike_H

Quick update.

I hauled all my measurement instruments home from work with me last night, and spent the better part of two hours measuring things in the engine. It looks as though my crank has already been turned 20 thou undersized, and had the appropriate rod installed...Clearance is correct, according to published values. The Cylinder is also within spec, albeit at 20 thou oversized. I'm going to buy a new piston and ring kit, and throw her back together. If it grenades, well, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

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rickpilgrim

As you said, tolerances are good so refreshing it is a good idea. A nice light hone, lapping compound to lap the valves, some 180 grit paper taped to piece of flat glass to true up the head, fresh gaskets, oil and air filter w/ new points and you'll have a good running engine that will last for yrs.

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Mike_H

Ok,

Since I'm waiting for a piston, thought I tinker with other areas of the engine. Looking through the manual, I see that the valve guides get lubricated with LED-Plate which I assume is a lead based grease. It has been discontinued, obviously. Is there a recommended substitute? Note this engine has already had bronze guides retrofitted, so, I'm thinking nev'rseize or I have some Moly lube that is pretty good. thoughts?

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