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Talntedmrgreen

Electric Lift Switch...can I save it?

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Talntedmrgreen

I finally gave the blower/T-16S combo a try this week, and had a bit of fun making hte 16 Briggs grunt a bit, but had one, extremely annoying problem. I'm the farthest thing from a 12V Tech, so I have to ask the silly questions.

The electric lift switch seems to have a 'sweet spot' for raising the blower. I have to fiddle with the switch, and 9 times out of 10, miss the 'sweet spot' over and over to use the lift. The down position works great. Interestingly, my lights will dim, as though a load is applied, without neccessarily hitting the 'Sweet spot'.

The lights will dima nd make me think I should see the blower raise, but most times, I don't, and continue to fiddle around.

Is there a way to clean or correct this in the switch, or is a new switch needed? What testing can I do? I took the switch loose, and looked for loose wires, but didn't waste much time before going about my business with another machine.

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BLT

Disconnect power wires from switch, should only be two, and apply power to each to make sure it is the switch and not the motor. If the motor runs good in both directions, your answer is switch. Then check switch for corroded side.

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Talntedmrgreen

Good call on the motor vs swtich check Bob. Things seemed to work fine with the mower deck this past summer, but the tractor has sat idle for probably 2 months.

I thought about the new switch thing...heck, I may even have a spare in my parts drawer, but was curious about whether or not there was anything that could be done to an old one.

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GrincheyOne
quote:Originally posted by Brettw

You can probably buy a replacement switch that will work, at Radio Shack for about 5 bux.


id="quote">
id="quote">Josh,I have an electric lift to go into one of my 4212s, a task on hold for better working conditions. 1st comes the "transplant" the "peerLESS".I bought a switch at NAPA, that has a built in reversal (simplifies wiring) for about $25. There are three variants of switches; (all electrical equivalents)- toggle- paddle- rockerThese are your choices, based on ease of operation*, placement, etc.* operation with gloved hands, and location.Your electrical problem may be with the current draw, and the 20A circuit breaker. If the breaker is operating correctly, it should open at a "draw" of about 17 amps combined load. Try it without other loads (EG lights, etc). Are You also dealing with an electric PTO clutch? That's a big hog!Cheers, and Beers!Wayne

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Mike_H

How does the switch work? Is it up/down/neutral? Is it all the way up, or all the way down? The operation will determine the type of switch it is. I don't have any experience with an electric lift per se, but I understand how the electrical should work going to the lift motor. If it works like a car window (ie you hold the switch for as long as you need to put the window in the position you want) then you'll need a Single Throw, Dual Pole switch. If it just goes all the way up when you flip the switch, its a single throw, single pole switch.

You can try some contact cleaner on the switch you have, but if its feeding 17 amps through the switch, the contacts are probably burned out, and you'll need to replace. MAKE SURE YOU GET A SWITCH RATED FOR THE AMPERAGE YOUR GOING TO PULL THROUGH IT. A good way to start an electrical fire is putting a 5 amp switch in and running 20 amps through it.

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rokon2813

Mike;

I could be wrong, but I think they are called double pole double throw momentary switches.

Meaning they are On / off / on. Center being off, and they automatically return to center when you let go of the switch.

The ones I have seen all have 6 posts on the back.

Center 2 are feed, both positive and negative. One pair goes to the motor (lift) and the other pair is jumpered to that pair to reverse the polarity going to the motor.

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Brettw
quote:Mike;

I could be wrong, but I think they are called double pole double throw momentary switches.

Meaning they are On / off / on. Center being off, and they automatically return to center when you let go of the switch.

The ones I have seen all have 6 posts on the back.

Center 2 are feed, both positive and negative. One pair goes to the motor (lift) and the other pair is jumpered to that pair to reverse the polarity going to the motor.


id="quote">
id="quote">

I believe this is correct. It is the same type of switch used for a spout rotator. Double pole, double throw, momentary.

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Mike_H

They actually make a BUNCH of different switches. If you were controlling two of something, you'd want the double pole, double throw (ie, a front and rear light, wired to be front only on, all off, or front and rear on). If you just have one motor to control, you just need a single throw (ie one motor), double pole (up, off, down).

Type in DPST switch in google.

That being said, a Double pole, double throw switch will also work. You will just have extra terminals

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rokon2813
quote:Originally posted by Mike_H

They actually make a BUNCH of different switches. If you were controlling two of something, you'd want the double pole, double throw (ie, a front and rear light, wired to be front only on, all off, or front and rear on). If you just have one motor to control, you just need a single throw (ie one motor), double pole (up, off, down).Type in DPST switch in google.That being said, a Double pole, double throw switch will also work. You will just have extra terminals


id="quote">
id="quote">I'm sorry, but I think you have it backwards. throw refers to switch positions, poles refer to circuits activated.Don't mean to correct you, but I'd like anyone else reading to understand correctly.http://www.colehersee.com/home/spst_spdt_dpst_dpdtYou need double throw for the 2 options, up and down, and double pole for the 2 circuits being activated, positive and negative.You can also get special reversing switches, that have only 4 terminals, that internally reverse the polarity.http://www.colehersee.com/home/item/cat/52/55046/To help with any more confusion (to add or clear up :o), an electric lift is not a standard motor (turns in one direction), it is a linear actuator and designed to turn in either direction.That is why the switch activates both positive circuit and negative.

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Brettw

If I am not mistaken, you would not want a DPST switch. The single throw is simply an on/off toggle. The double pole allows you to connect two devices to the switch, but you still only have the on/off function. For a lift or rotator, you need two functions, hence the DPDT. Double pole (one for up, one for down) Double throw, one for up one for down) So the double throw is center off, up one way, down the opposite, so in essence, thee are three positions. Also, you definitely want it to be a momentary switch so it returns to the off position automatically (they are spring loaded) when you have raised or lowered your lift to the desired height. Think of your power window switch in your car. The window does nothing (switch in the center or of mode)until you push the switch for up (one direction) or down (the other direction) and returns to the center or off position when you release the switch.

At least this is how I understand it, but I am not an electrical engineer. In fact, the closest I came to being an engineer is activating my HO train to go forward or backwards as a kid.:o)

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rokon2813
quote:Originally posted by Mike_H

Ok, my bad...Single pole, dual throw. regardless, no need for a double pole switch. There is only one load source.


id="quote">
id="quote">Mike, read my edit above, posted after you posted, sorry.There are actually 2 loads on a linear actuator. Either wire can be positive, depending on the direction of rotation.

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Brettw
quote: no need for a double pole switch.id="quote">
id="quote">

Unless the polarity is changed internally of the switch, or the item to be powered is grounded directly to the frame, I believe you will still need a double pole switch, as these change polarity from one pole to the other. Maynard (rest his soul) had a very informative diagram if you search the forums.

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GrincheyOne

The lift is a direct current device (DC). and requires a Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) center off switch. I'll have to see if I have a NA{PA #

on the shelf.

Wayne

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cityboy2977

same switch that is on a camper tongue jack. 4 poles on back(some have 6).

juice goes to the center poles and motor goes to the other 2.

can be found at any RV store if NAPA or auto parts store doesnt carry it.

last one i bought was about $8.

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SmilinSam
quote:Originally posted by Brettw

You can probably buy a replacement switch that will work, at Radio Shack for about 5 bux.


id="quote">
id="quote">Just bought 2 last week from radio shack for $5.50 or so each. They are mostly plastic, but for that price who cares..6 tabs on the back just like the lift switches, self centering momentary toggle. They work fine, got one on my DA 917 for the blower flap motor

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GrincheyOne
quote:Originally posted by GrincheyOne

The lift is a direct current device (DC). and requires a Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) center off switch. I'll have to see if I have the NAPA # on the shelf.Wayne


id="quote">
id="quote">OK Josh, I can only guess that U got the Christmas "GIFT"! LOL}:)This is the switch I selected from NAPA, made by Echlin in Mexico...The link is...http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Rocker-Switch/_/R-ECHRS1010_0431154433It is a 20Amp rated switch (DPDT-center off spring loaded rocker)It has a built in polarity reversal buss! Simplifies user wiring.

ECH_RS1010.jpg

Wayne

ECH_RS1010.jpg.6f766abb6f677c5875d4fda9075cda51.jpg

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cityboy2977

Burntime put an idea in my head that i cant make happen. at least not like i want to.

the idea is to put that switch into the hydro lift handle to control an electric chute rotator. i want to position it so that it can be controled with index & middle fingers. but hydro knob just isnt thick enough to receive the switch. and im just not a big fan of cobbling stuff up.

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Brettw

Yes Wayne, the switch you are showing is a SPDT switch, so it is a "single pole" switch. Looking on the backside, you can see how the switch itself is set up to change polarity. It is using the second "pole" of the "double pole" and crossing the polarity. This is a perfect example that shows how a single pole switch will work, and in essence does exactly what we do with jumpers on a DPDT switch. I stated:

quote:Unless the polarity is changed internally of the switch, or the item to be powered is grounded directly to the frame,id="quote">
id="quote">. In this case, the switch doesn't change the polarity "internally", but the switch itself does change the polarity. Good example of a SPDT switch that would work. Thanks for sharing!

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