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Brettw

Dead Sundstrand? Update:

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Brettw

I picked up an early 90's Sovereign today. 18 horse Kohler Command, runs like a dream. Overall very nice tractor in good condition. One small problem; it doesn't move. Let me give you what I know: Yes, the drive belt is tight and the pump is turning. Yes the freewheel valves are in the upright position, move freely, and will return while running(although a bit slowly) to the up position if pushed down. The filter looks to be fairly new. It was low on fluid (almost 1-1/2 quarts) and I have now filled it. Hydro lift arm functions, but very slowly. The tractor seems like it wants to move, sometimes, but a 5 year old powder puff Kindergarden girl could hold it back.

I have always believed the Sundstrands to be bullet proof. But unless I am missing something, it may be that this thing was towed, or run so low on fluid it burned up? Any ideas short of pulling it apart? I am not much of a hydro mechanic, so I am not sure what else might be the issue.

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

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yukon

i had one like that the clutch on the right side was not fully engaging, it froze half way and not letting the idler pully to fully engage the belt on the hydro like running at half speed.

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MikeES

Is the tube axle rotating? If it is then it is something broken outside the transaxle...if not maybe a sheared key inside the transaxle. They will generally create enough friction to move on the flat.

I broke the solid axle and the tractor still moved, but slow to start and would stop on a hill.

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Brettw

No, axle, tube or diff is not rotating. I forgot to mention that. No ugly noises and the tractor wants to move, the hydro lift quadrant want's to move, but not very well at all. It appears to definitely be hydraulic and not mechanical (no grinding or bad gears, diff, keys, etc.) If it weren't for the lazy hydro-lift quadrant, I would be looking at keys, sheared gears, etc.

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maxwood

Is the filter correct? Try a new filter , or lift the relief valve on left side in front of filter when I got my 7117 it was intermittent

(go stop go stop) a new filter and fresh oil still good after 2 yrs

Good Luck

Ken in Mi

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PhanDad

Ken may have nailed the problem.

I think I remember reading here that the filter is on the "suction" side of the pump. If you put a "better" filter (small microns to filter better) on, the pump can't get enough fluid to pump and priming is very difficult.

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Brettw

Ok, does anyone know the proper filter number for this? The filter that is on there, that appears to be new, and is a Simplicity filter (the short one) is part # 1671234SW

If this is the correct part number, I won't spend the money and make the mess of changing it just yet. If it is the wrong filter, then I can begin with changing that.

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ardisam

Brett, it has the right filter number on it. I'm trying to think that I never had one act like this. I'll do some more thinking on it, and if I come up with something I would give you a call.

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Burntime

Sounds like either pump or sever3e restriction. Just for grins try pulling both relief valves and make sure they are open and functioning. Its quick and easy and takes one thing out of the equation. Does the pump get warm? I agree, the filter is a good place to start. Also, I have seen people put some pretty thick stuff in the hydro fill and act like what you are saying until it warms up. It is cold. Try a quick filter only change too if your sure the hydro fluid is correct. The tensioner is also something I have seen. It will engage, just not enough to keep positive contact.

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Brettw

Well, it was a bit warmer today. So I thought I would give the tractor another shot at moving. I wanted to run the engine up to good and warm anyway, and get a full charge on the battery. At first it still didn't want to move but then did slowly. Reverse seemed to get stronger quite fast. Forward got better.....and then better and now seems to be full speed full strength. Reverse is as strong as any others I have driven. Trans got warmed up. Checked fluid level again. It took a good pint or so more. All in all, almost down two quarts. I guess that could have been the problem? I am thinking it will need a full fluid change and a new filter, just to make sure that any moisture or old fluid is out of there. I will want to see how it is on a cold start right out of the box too.

This would be one of the easiest fixes ever, if in fact it was just a few quarts of fluid to fix a bad tractor. I was not sold on a burned out Sundstrand pump to begin with which is why I took the chance with buying the tractor. We shall see...........

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BLT
quote:Originally posted by Brettw

This would be one of the easiest fixes ever, if in fact it was just a few quarts of fluid to fix a bad tractor. I was not sold on a burned out Sundstrand pump to begin with which is why I took the chance with buying the tractor. We shall see...........


id="quote">
id="quote">I rest my case.dOd

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HubbardRA

It could have been one of the pressure relief valves(the ones for the tranny and hydrolift, not the freewheeling valves) that was stuck and not letting the pressure build like it should. As the fluid flowed, it slowly loosened and cleaned the check valve so that it closed and allowed pressure to build to the proper level.

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Brettw
quote:I rest my case.id="quote">
id="quote">

Yup Bob, we both said we could not quite accept that the Sundstrand was that cooked that it would not operate at all. Never heard of them flat out croaking. Many possibilities why the tractor may not move; a failed Sundstrand being the least likely option of all of them.

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yukon

brettw i just had that in my agco allis 10 below zero and it wouldnt move, warmed up 2 10 above and it took right off . changed the fluid and someone put the wrong fluid in it it was like motor oil.

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Brettw
quote:Time for arm pumps and victory laps!id="quote">
id="quote">

I'll do the arm pumps. :J The victory laps will have to be on the tractor, I'm too lazy to run anywhere. And I'll wait on all of it until I go out and check the tractor on a cold start and see if it takes off as it should right out of the box.

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Brettw

All is good. I ran it for a good time, a number of "hot laps", warmed up the fluid, changed fluid and filter, and it is all good to go. The bulletproof Sundstrands remain bulletproof, from my experiences.

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ardisam

Brett, when I worked on my friends farm as a mechanic. I worked along side his other mechanic that was Allis certified and he told me when he worked at a Allis Chalmers dealer they had a Allis 300 series with the Vickers pump on it. They would use the tractor to haul in cars and the big Allis tractors and pretty much beat it to death and it would take the abuse. So, I would think the Vickers were strong ones too.

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