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michics

PowerMax Repower

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michics

I'd like to repower my AC 720, but have been unable to find much info on other peoples experience repowering these. I have read that there is considerable info on the Simple tractor site. But I've been unable to find anything over there. Does anyone know where this info is on the Simple Tractor site ?

I know Michaels tractors has a section on Pmax's , but I've never been able to get registered on that site.

Thanks

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RayS

This is Simple Tractors. Most use Honda repowers from SEW. You more than likely won`t find much Since this site is mostly large frame and there isn`t nearly as many powermax owners here and more than likely not that many that have done repowers compared to the amount of large and small frame tractor owners. They are here but few and far between.

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ka9bxg

I am thinking about the 23 hp vanguard comes with the wiring harness new chock cable and all parts to switch it over. Wish they had a 30 hp that would fit could use the xtra power for blowing snow

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acfarmer

The obvious answer to me is to find a good running 24HP Onan and it'll bolt right in,often wonder why no matter what brand engine came in a garden tractor everyone wants to repower with something different.

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michics

Yep, I'm thinking about going the 24hp Onan Performer route. Gain the power and everything stays relatively original. I talked to a Onan rebuilder today and he swears by the 24hp Performer. More power, more torque, electronic ignition, runs cool , bolts right in, over 2k hours before next rebuild, and at about half the price of a B & S repower.

Besides, as we all know , a sweet running Onan is hard to beat.

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PGL

You asked how to find the information. On this Club site,look to the Help & FAQs button at the top and look down to the How to Search. You need to look back through the archives; there have been a number of references to repowering the Powermax, simplicity 4040 & 4041, AC 616, 620 & 720 (all the same basic machine with updates in the newer models). I put a Vanguard 23 in a 620 and am happy with it as previously reported, with pictures.

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Brettw
quote:The obvious answer to me is to find a good running 24HP Onan and it'll bolt right in,often wonder why no matter what brand engine came in a garden tractor everyone wants to repower with something different.id="quote">
id="quote">

I think often times, it is an availability / affordability issue and not necessarily an individual wanting to use something different.

I for one, would love it if KT's or Magnums were readily available at a reasonable price and could be bolted right in in 20 minutes. No hassles, no special fabrication, no hacking up a frame or sourcing a workable muffler or driveshaft/coupler, etc. I wish the answer were that "obvious".

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BLT

The question is, can you get a new Performer engine? From what can see, they are a flat head engine about the time the Magnum was around and I don't see any tractors with OHV Onan engines unless I am really blind.

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Talntedmrgreen

The Vanguards and Honda's seem to be falling from trees...those things are everywhere, and have great feedback from owners. I like the Commands, but just don't seem to hear them mentioned as repower options quite as often, in the tractor, cart or other circles. Kawasaki's have good feedback form teh ATV world. The chinese diesel's are making a splash in many places, with good feedback and availability. Onan is probably the last name I hear...I wouldn't even know where to get one.

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RayS
quote:Originally posted by acfarmer

Those Kohlers won't come close to bolting into a Power Max


id="quote">
id="quote">Why not? Commands or flat heads? If a Honda or Vanguard will fit a Command should as well.

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Brettw
no matter what brand engine came in a garden tractor everyone wants to repower with something different.
id="quote">

I was referring to Sovereign types, from my experience, and in regard to repowers in general. I should have been more specific, and was not speaking of sub-compact type tractors.

quote:Those Kohlers won't come close to bolting into a Power Maxid="quote">
id="quote">

His statement assumed I was speaking of the Power Max series. The Kt's and Magnums may not install well in these tractors.

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acfarmer

To find the CCK engines look at industrial equipment also Gravely used them.The CCK engines were the top of the line small engine in their day and the Kohlers like the K482 were a close 2nd.With the external governors those old Kohlers were really durable and tough.Both companies cheapened up their products from that point on but Onan still had the best built engine around and the most expensive

BTW.

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midnightpumpkin

I have an Onan Performer P224 sitting side by side with a CCKB from a Powermax 4041.

The CCKB makes the performer look like a dwarf. The performer may fit into a Powermax with an adaptor plate to raise it up to compensate for the much smaller oil pan.

If it were me, I would invest in the CCKB or look for a good used one. I have bought 2 CCKB's from people who re-powered. One had a starter issue, the other a warped points box, minor problems. Both of these engines had excellent compression and ran without issues, once the culprits that caused them to be replaced were corrected.

As for power, do you really think a Powermax with a good running CCKB needs more power??

My 2 cents.

John U

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michics

John,

In reading posts over on Michaels site on repowering there have been a couple comments made about lengthening the frame when they installed a P224. If you have one sitting there, is it longer than a CCKB ?

The guy I've talked to says he can change pans to raise the motor to near the correct height. Seems like this should almost be a bolt in job.

I use this tractor strictly for Plow Days and don't care for those JD 430's running wild in the field. I know it's not really necessary but most of what we do in our hobbies rarely makes good sense. It's for the fun factor.

Thanks

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phillobbezoo

I have 3 powermax's one has a kohler magnum 20 in it,it's strictly a loader tractor and I don't mind the motor. It's set up like John said there's a plate that it sits on, my biggest complaint is I can't hook up the rear pto witch I don't have to have I guess cause the other 2 do. Now as far as the other 2 tractors they both have the original cck in them and I love them imo they Are a better motor they start better in the cold and I think all around just run smoother when they are dialed in right. I would stick with the cck but that's just me. I'm actually keeping my eyes open for a cck for my loader tractor. That's just my 2 cents good luck.

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midnightpumpkin
quote:Originally posted by michics

John,In reading posts over on Michaels site on repowering there have been a couple comments made about lengthening the frame when they installed a P224. If you have one sitting there, is it longer than a CCKB ? The guy I've talked to says he can change pans to raise the motor to near the correct height. Seems like this should almost be a bolt in job.I use this tractor strictly for Plow Days and don't care for those JD 430's running wild in the field. I know it's not really necessary but most of what we do in our hobbies rarely makes good sense. It's for the fun factor.Thanks


id="quote">
id="quote">The Performer is very close to the same length as the CCKB.It is the Kohler K series and Magnums that require the frame to be stretched or the engine raised above the top of the frame rails.IMO Simplicity really blew it when they did not design the Powermax frame to accomodate other engines from the era.John U

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ka9bxg

There is a guy that comes to the Baraboo show with a few tractors 1 he had installed a 24 hp performer and did a great job. He did have to cut the hood a little to make it fit. There is a man in Minnesota that has all the inventory of the onans and parts. He does want $2000.00 for a new performer so that put it out of my range. As for power I could use more power when snow blowing. Still plan to get the briggs and put it in one of my tractors.

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Brettw

There was a NOS Onan short block CCKB I believe on Milwaukee Craig's. I tried to give a heads up to a few of the PowerMax guys in the club. It's not on Craig's anymore and I wonder if one of our boys snatched it up?

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Kent

Onans were also used a lot to power the refrigerators (reefers) on over-the-road refrigerated trailers. Don't know if they were CCKs or not, though...

I've heard of them being used to power the generators and A/C units on RVs too...

In general terms, it seems like a lot of industrial-type applications slowly changed from the larger Wisconsins to Onans...

Not sure if that was truly the case, but it looks that way, from the outside looking in...

Never owned an Onan, but they seem to be great engines -- just that the parts were expensive and harder to find...

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SmilinSam

Did a Honda repower with a 24hp kit from sew years ago. After doing it, and making a bunch of mods to cover all the heat related issues and such, as well as another local 24 conversion catching fire last year...I am of the learned opinion that its best to stick with the CCKB platform, or if you have to- a performer.

Its been my opinion since my conversion experience that the Powermax types are just plainly engineered soley around that Onan CCKB platform. As such, it makes it difficult to swap engines and cover all the heat related and clearance issues involved in a V-twin application.

I went to the trouble of relocating the battery to under the seat and raising the seat to accommodate that. Did that to get the battery out of the mufflers heat, but more so to put in a fan cooled transmission oil cooler where the battery was..which I did to get rid of the original oil cooler for the transmission so I wouldn't be preheating the air used to cool the engine. Also reworked the tin under the hood to help keep hot air from being recirculated and to fix clearance issues with the engine.

I was talking to another club member last weekend and it seems the Hondas can fail from the lack of a bearing on the flywheel side(someone please confirm this) and if that's so, the Briggs vanguards would be in the same boat. This due to the stress from the transmission clutch arrangement pulling down on the flywheel. It was also said that Honda wont warranty those engines now in the pmax applications.( again, confirmation needed, but that's the story that reaches my ears.)

The local Honda that burned, caught fire due to chaff build up near the oil cooler. So, theres a must do added level of maintenance that must be observed there.

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phillobbezoo

I too have heard from more than one person the Hondas ate the crank bearings, but I was told honda used a bushing and not an actual bearing for the crank. I'm pretty sure I read that some where else as well but I don't remember where. I always liked honda everything as far as small motors go but as far as a repower I would not use one for any of my powermax's

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michics

A good discussion and good information. Gives me a lot to think about before I proceed. I to had read about a lot of heating problems with the B & S and Honda engines. That's why I started looking at going the P224 route. My engine has over 1700 hours, runs fine, only smokes on start up. But seems down on power. So I don't know what direction I'll go.

Thanks for all the feedback.

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