Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

Sign in to follow this  
SimpleAlex

7116 Won't Turnover

Recommended Posts

SimpleAlex

Hi!

I went outside to clear some snow from the driveway this morning and the mighty 7116H wouldn't turnover.

Here's what I have:

o Battery ready 13.8V across the terminals

o Positive to frame reads 13.8V

o Lights will not turn on

o Ammeter shows nothing at all

I got in and wiggled the connector on the ignition switch and got no reaction. I pulled the battery and took the connector off to look at the terminals and it did look a bit oxidized, but not terrible.

Any suggestions? I have a feeling the switch/key assembly is somehow bad..

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BLT

Make sure your bsttery terminals are clean and tight. With the key and the lights on wiggle the terminals to see if you get any reaction. If they are,check and wiggle the terminals on circuit breaker. It might require you to lift steering wheel. Cold weather brings out the worst, just been there.:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tomwendt

Happened a few times to me this winter on the same machine.i don't know if you have a hydro but I had to pull my lever to the left when starting maybe because of the cold on the safety switch.just a thought!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RayS

Should be a hydro interlock and a PTO interlock. If open it will not start also make sure one of the wires going to ammeter hasn`t slid off the terminals. As Bob stated the circuit breaker will cause a no start as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimpleAlex

No luck on anything so far. Can't even get the lights to turn on.Can anyone tell me if the lights should come on when the key is in the run position, or does the engine have to be running?I got a new ignition switch and tried that, but still nothing.Is the "thing" pictured below the fuse? If so, how can I tell if it's bad?Thanks!

photo.JPG

photo.JPG.57b89baf7cc96c894a295b9e2d38c018.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimpleAlex

Gave that a try, and nothing.

I don't see any voltage the the starter to the battery ground when I turn the key. Also don't see any voltage drop across the battery wen I turn the key.

Vexing..!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RayS

The lights will come on in the run position. The thing below (your picture) is the voltage regulator. The fuse is behind the battery, below the terminal board at the bottom of the dash or whatever you want to call it. It has two wires that slip onto it. It will look similar to the picture below.

19-1405-color.jpg

Look under my profile and cool links. The link is a large frame repair manual. It has all the electrical test procedures in it for trouble shooting the ammeter, circuit breaker, ignition switch and so on. Not sure if you have a voltmeter or not. Walmart and Harbor Freight have them cheap. I wouldn`t throw money at it without testing each item. You can easily spend $50 to a $100 in parts and find out the last part which cost $5 or $6 is the problem and most places will not take electrical parts back.I would try what Ron suggest.

19-1405-color.jpg.6b2a1b25ad1123ea6362e946ee7d936f.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brettw

You can certainly start by bypassing the circuit breaker. That is free. This should be just to test it however. If hotwiring (jumping)the circuit breaker fixes your issue, there is your answer, but then it needs to be replaced, it's there for a good reason and you don't want to end up burning up the tractor. If that tests out, same for the ammeter. You could simply use a continuity tester on both, and I recommend using a continuity tester on all of your connections. You may simply have a broken wire too. (remember to disconnect battery when using a continuity tester, either that or go buy a pack of replacement bulbs right away :o)) Sometimes, the easiest way to find the issue is with a continuity tester, you can check your switch too. I have found that is usually the best way to find the bad egg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
donmoore1904

I would echo the advice to not replace things until the problem is solved. Some of these things will cost more than others, and most are probably not returnable.

I would concentrate on getting the lights working, since they should be on with the switch in the "run" position. There is a very high probability that you fix that, and you're done.

This is a fairly simple problem in concept: it requires a complete circuit going from the positive + battery terminal through the lights to ground. The items mentioned above (switch, circuit breaker, ammeter) are in series in this circuit, and one has an "open" (disconnect). This is why "bridging" is being mentioned, but you need to be careful that you don't accidentally bridge a hot point to ground.

If you are certain about the wiring diagram and connections, you can do this with just a bridge (short) and without a DC or continuity meter. However, a meter can be used in place of the bridge and will safely locate the problem: it will show +12V or -12V if you put it across something that should be shorted but for some reason is open.

Here is why: (circuit is a hypothetical example)

Batt(+) terminal--wire--Circuit breaker--Ammeter--wire--Ignition Switch--wire--lights--wire--frame(optional)--wire--Batt(-) terminal.

With no current flowing(lights off), there is no voltage drop across anything that has a resistance, since volts = amps x resistance (ohms). Each of these items should have a very low resistance - the highest is the lights, which should be less than 100 ohms. Therefore, if you identify the two terminals of each of the items in the list, and find the one with +12V or -12V (depending on polarity of meter) across it, you know that is the one that is open. Tip - It won't be the lights, since they are off. Note: if more than one item is open this method won't work - make sure the ignition switch is at "RUN".

Using a continuity tester is another choice. You should do this with no power anywhere - meaning disconnect the battery. In the diagram above, if you replace the battery terminals with the leads an ohmmeter, it should show the resistance of the lights with the ignition at RUN since everything else is close to 0 ohms. It won't right now, since there is an open (infinite resistance) somewhere. Go across each item with the meter until you find the one that is open.

If you don't have an ohmmeter, using a test light with its own power source, go across each item until you find the one that doesn't light the light. Again, do this with at least one battery terminal disconnected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OrangeMetalGuy

The circuit breaker will reset itself.

If it was running and just now won't do anything, I suspect a safety switch (and also, you will probably have one or more factory jumpers across safety switch connectors underneath). For instance, my 716H has a connector hanging down under the middle of the frame with a factory jumper across it. If one of those jumpers comes out that will do the same thing.

Use the wiring diagram (Allis not Simplicity, they are not the same) and test each connection. I once had a 4" piece of wire broken inside the insulation. I kept assuming "that can't possibly be bad!" until I finally tested it and found that it was. If you can't find the Allis wiring diagram I can email it to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
donmoore1904
quote:Originally posted by OrangeMetalGuy

The circuit breaker will reset itself.If it was running and just now won't do anything, I suspect a safety switch (and also, you will probably have one or more factory jumpers across safety switch connectors underneath). For instance, my 716H has a connector hanging down under the middle of the frame with a factory jumper across it. If one of those jumpers comes out that will do the same thing.Use the wiring diagram (Allis not Simplicity, they are not the same) and test each connection. I once had a 4" piece of wire broken inside the insulation. I kept assuming "that can't possibly be bad!" until I finally tested it and found that it was. If you can't find the Allis wiring diagram I can email it to you.


id="quote">
id="quote">My guess would have been that a safety switch wouldn't keep the lights from working, but I could be wrong.I keyed in on that in my diagnostic procedure, when Alex said the lights don't work with the ignition switch at RUN.On my 3410, the safety switches are in series with the voltage to the solenoid, so they wouldn't affect the lights. The 7116 could be different.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HubbardRA

Run a jumper wire from the + terminal on the battery to the 12V input terminal on the ignition switch. If the lights and starter work, then it will be a broken or disconnected wire between the battery and ignition switch. If nothing works, then the switch is either bad or the wrong switch.

Step by step you need to trace the voltage in the circuit till you find where the voltage drops to 0. That is where the problem is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ishmael2k
Originally posted by OrangeMetalGuy

Use the wiring diagram (Allis not Simplicity, they are not the same) and test each connection. I once had a 4" piece of wire broken inside the insulation. I kept assuming "that can't possibly be bad!" until I finally tested it and found that it was. If you can't find the Allis wiring diagram I can email it to you.

id="quote">Great diagnostic advice. Follow it SimpleAlex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimpleAlex

Hey All,I started checking everything based on the large frame repair manual mentioned earlier. I found out that the fuse is good, but one of the connectors had rusted right through. There was a lot of grass clippings built up over the fuse, and I suppose that may have created a wet environment that encouraged corrosion.So I'm going to pick up a new fuse tomorrow and see if that is the only issue, or just one layer of the onion.The post on the fuse that rusted through is stuck in the wiring-harness connector side, now, though. See pictures below if that's confusing..Any suggestions on the best way to replace it, or possible get the bolt/post out?

photo1.JPG

photo2.JPG

photo1.JPG.704c9c78ca8347757c8217b0ec546251.JPG

photo2.JPG.430778ef011e5576c146df935acc11f8.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ronald Hribar

You may have to crimp on a new end. This type of fuse should never have to be replaced unless it is damaged like yours is

The blade type fuse would have to be replaced every time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×