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damon91

2010 BGB noise

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damon91

Well We had a half decent day today so i pushed the 2010 landlord project outside to try and get the carb dialed in. This is the first time I have ran it with the drive shaft and everything hooked up. I have a few bugs to work out.

One of the things that concerned me was the amount of noise from the BGB. This is my first simplicity with a BGB so I dont know what is normal, but It was pretty loud and didnt sound very good to me. I rebuilt the BGB with new gears and seals, the old gears were chipped bad. The bearings seemed ok so I left them alone. I shimmed it so there is about 1\16" end play in the cross shaft. I could not find any specs on this in the manual, so I just went with what felt right. I have 80W 90 oil in it. any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Also my regulator is putting out 15 volts. do you think I should try adjusting it down, or leave it alone?

Thanks

Damon

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ss74nova

Damon,

Does yours have a split pulley on the rope start side of the BGB? Does it make a metal to metal rattle noise with the clutch pushed in? Does it groan on takeoff? The split pulley has nylon inserts that might be gone. Here's a thread were talking about now. Maybe this will help.

Tim

http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=138820

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damon91

It does have the split pulley on the rope start cup, but the nylon inserts are intact because I have had it all apart. This noise is all the time, even with the clutch out in neutral. I guess I could describe it as a groaning gear sound.

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damon91

I have been reading posts on here for the last two hours on BGB's. when you assemble them are you supposed to shim them so their is absolutly no endplay in the cross shaft? Their is about 3/16" backlash at the outside of the starter cup, and 1/16" endplay on the cross shaft. Should I pull the endplate off and shim it a little more? is that enough play to cause noisy gears? Do new gears have a break in period to where they will eventually quiet down?

Sorry for all the questions, I am just kind of lost on this, and the thought of having to take the tractor back apart to pull the gearbox turns my stomach.

Thanks

Damon

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damon91

Well, I broke down and pulled the tractor apart and pulled the BGB, this is what I found that I didnt notice when I installed these brand new gears. look how bad they mesh.

01240.jpg

These are the old gears

01242.jpg

This is the reason I put new gears in, this is the input gear

01243.jpg

I narrowed down the problem with the new cross shaft gear. the new input gear meshes up nice with the old cross shaft gear.The new cross shaft meshes bad with the old input gear. and the new gears mesh bad with eachother. Would it be ok to use a new gear and an old gear together? Has anyone ran into this before?

01240.jpg.55d3f67acf9120e99435521e5bcc49e5.jpg

01242.jpg.7873c7fd8086d193562836fce4c4e4db.jpg

01243.jpg.ab71e5dcb5dbe44e1914c1516d261471.jpg

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trowel
quote:Originally posted by damon91

Well, I broke down and pulled the tractor apart and pulled the BGB, this is what I found that I didnt notice when I installed these brand new gears. look how bad they mesh.

01240.jpg

These are the old gears

01242.jpg

This is the reason I put new gears in, this is the input gear

01243.jpg

I narrowed down the problem with the new cross shaft gear. the new input gear meshes up nice with the old cross shaft gear.The new cross shaft meshes bad with the old input gear. and the new gears mesh bad with eachother. Would it be ok to use a new gear and an old gear together? Has anyone ran into this before?


id="quote">
id="quote">Huh, my old gears meshed together fine, was not too worn down and there is min. end play on the output shaft like yours.Keep use updated on your progresses.I sprayed silicon in between the pulley halfs and the squalking when away for a while, mabey it was fooling me ?

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donmoore1904

Not an expert, but it seems there should be no need to "match" gears, and you should be able to replace just one. It is a lot of work to run the test, unfortunately. I assume the old cross shaft gear doesn't look anything like the old drive gear sm01

If the mesh shown in the picture is as good as it gets, that doesn't look right. I remember a tight mesh on my gears. You may be able to see wear already on the teeth of the new gears under magnification if the fit isn't right.

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damon91

Just an update for anyone that may be interested. I just got everything put back together. I used the new input gear with the old cross shaft gear. Its amazing how smooth it is now compaired to before. Also I found that Ace hardware sells shimms that fit perfectly.

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donmoore1904
quote:Originally posted by damon91

Just an update for anyone that may be interested. I just got everything put back together. I used the new input gear with the old cross shaft gear. Its amazing how smooth it is now compaired to before. Also I found that Ace hardware sells shimms that fit perfectly.


id="quote">
id="quote">Excellent - good problem solving! Sometimes just talking it out leads to the solution.

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MrSteele

Maybe it is just that I am old fashioned, or that I know how hard something was to take apart, or?? When I do something that is as much a pain as the BGB can be, when it is put back together, all things are new. Your old gears are missing material, that material is in the grease that lubes the bearings, and has been for a while. I know you changed it, likely washed the inside of the gearbox, hopefully cleaned the bearings. Going to the trouble to disassemble, replace some of the innards and not all to me is a mistake. Some of your noise, and your next reason for taking it back apart is going to be to replace bearings that were already damaged when you put it back together

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damon91
quote:Originally posted by MrSteele

Maybe it is just that I am old fashioned, or that I know how hard something was to take apart, or?? When I do something that is as much a pain as the BGB can be, when it is put back together, all things are new. Your old gears are missing material, that material is in the grease that lubes the bearings, and has been for a while. I know you changed it, likely washed the inside of the gearbox, hopefully cleaned the bearings. Going to the trouble to disassemble, replace some of the innards and not all to me is a mistake. Some of your noise, and your next reason for taking it back apart is going to be to replace bearings that were already damaged when you put it back together


id="quote">
id="quote">Ive been down that path before with other things. You replace all parts while you have something apart because you think its the right thing to do. Then you find out the hard way that the new replacement parts arent as good, and dont work quite as right as the origonal parts that were in there. Then you have nothing but heartaches with it. Ive learned through the years that if things are still in good shape and their is nothing wrong with them, you are best off leaving them alone.

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dlsven

I have a question about what oil to use in the BGB. Some posts and the repair manual that I have say to use Simplicity multi-purpose hydraulic/transmission oil or type F automobile transmission fluid but other posts say to use 80W 90 oil. My BGB is a little low and what's in there looks like oil, not ATF fluid. Would either work and would there be a problem if the two are mixed?

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ss74nova

I use 80w90 in my 1960s Landlords in the bgb & 3 speed transmissions. You can always drain it & put fresh in so you don't mix oils. These links may be of help.

http://simpletractors.com/Club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=117059

http://www.simpletractors.com/service/lube_pg1..htm

http://www.simpletractors.com/service/lube_pg2.htm

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dlsven

It looks like either type F or 80w90 will work. I'll make sure what I have now and add the same.

I guess I don't know how to do a proper search of the archives.

Thanks a lot for the info.

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donmoore1904
Originally posted by damon91
quote:
id="quote">If I recall this thread correctly, one of the new gears was likely out of spec. So the quandary is to attempt to return for a replacement, and wait, or put a part back in that isn't perfect but you hope "good enough." In this case, worrying about debris in grease is certainly wise. I have to admit, if this happened to me, I may have considered the swap and taken my chance on the old part. If I didn't run it too long, I'd further chance leaving the grease.It's an individual call. That said, it's a heck of a lot of work replacing the BGB, and I salute those who take the more conservative approach.

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