Brettw Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 Well, I had listed the PS Sovereign I have, and have now pulled the ad. I am not satisfied with the way the power steering responds and I want it right before I sell it. How can I explain? It has the power to turn the front wheels at a standstill, on pavement. So it seems to have plenty of power, but it is very sluggish. When I try to turn even a bit quickly, it does not want to respond in kind. It is a significant lag, to the point of being a chore to use when cutting grass and making those quicker tight turns around obstacles. For the record, I have a new filter and fluid in the trans/pump, and it is properly bled and is full. The tractor only has about 5 hours on the fluid change and new engine, and had been sitting for a while before the repower. The tractor will pull very well, so the pump seems strong, but it does seem to lag a bit also at lower speeds. If you push the control handle forward, you are going, no questions, but it seems to have laziness at a lower speed. If anyone is more familiar with these systems and has a thought, I would appreciate the help!
Mike Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 mine lags like that when the fluid is really cold, other than that I would suspect fluid and filter, but you replaced those items. I guess I would check hydro pump belt for tightness.
AC_HB-112 Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 hydro lines, flush them, might be clogged with gunk
mbir3416 Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 the charge pump creates a positive charge of oil to the piston pump (drive) the charge pump is also the steering and lift. it is vary small in amount of oil supplied it sounds like it worn or not getting a full supply of oil
PeppyDan Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 quote:Originally posted by mbir3416the charge pump creates a positive charge of oil to the piston pump (drive) the charge pump is also the steering and lift. it is vary small in amount of oil supplied it sounds like it worn or not getting a full supply of oil id="quote">id="quote">I would agree with mbir3416 that it sounds as if the pump is not supplying adequate pressure. You may need to check the pressure ports with a gauge.Dan
Burntime Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I have heard this in the past and experienced it. You can shim the pump just so slightly. The one I had was awesome even at idle...
yukon Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 everyone i had was like that i blamed it on small oil reserve but i might be wrong.
yukon Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 you got me interested in shiming the pump mike how do you do that. ive got 2 of them and there both sluggish.
Brettw Posted May 11, 2014 Author Posted May 11, 2014 Well, it sounds like I need to inspect the charge pump and pressures. So now I will need some more info on the how to and shimming, if that is the issue. So far, thanks to all for the input!
Burntime Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 I have been told and by memory so please verify...7016 are at 250psi and 7100 with lift is 750 to 850. Something to do with higher presure is slightly more volume as the ps was an after thought on these. You never hear this on a sunstar...it has more volume...
BLT Posted May 11, 2014 Posted May 11, 2014 quote:Originally posted by BurntimeI have been told and by memory so please verify...7016 are at 250psi and 7100 with lift is 750 to 850. Something to do with higher presure is slightly more volume as the ps was an after thought on these. You never hear this on a sunstar...it has more volume... id="quote">id="quote">The Sunstar uses the same hydro as the Sovereigns. How could it get better flow? My SS is sluggish at idle but running it's acceptable.
RayS Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Roy Popes was that same way new. I have two of them with power steering and neither of them have that problem.
Ronald Hribar Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Is it possible the way the lines are run I thought I read that there were two ways they were run Factory and another way with the kit
Burntime Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 Could it be as simple as needing a new filter? This is another reason I am gung ho on synthetic for motor and hydro...
Talntedmrgreen Posted May 12, 2014 Posted May 12, 2014 My PS sovereign would only exhibit a lag (and very, very slight) when turning at speed, and operating the lift. My ps install on the 7790 has been ideal, and I notice no lag at all.
PhanDad Posted May 13, 2014 Posted May 13, 2014 Your PS system might be suffering from incorrect pressure or other issues but I think a properly function PS system feels sluggish due to the design. The manual steering is twice as responsive compared to the PS. Or my PS is also faulty. Can anyone else confirm the following data. It was taken with the front end of the tractor jacked up so the wheels were free floating. Action / Steering Wheel Turns-PS. // -Manual Center to full right / ~1 // 1/2 Full right to center. / ~1 // 1/2 Center to full left. / ~1 1/2. // 5/8 Full left to full right. / ~2 1/8. // 1 1/8 Full right to full left. / ~2 1/2. // 1 1/8 As to info on setting pressures, etc, see these posts: http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=89744&SearchTerms=hydraulic,install http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=117631&SearchTerms=set,pressure
Talntedmrgreen Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Bill, without measuring, I would say thats about right. But the 'lag' Im interpreting is how far the wheel has to be turned before there is resistence from a lack of hydro responsen. The ratio seems very different, manual vs PS, but I thik a properly operating PS should respond immediately, whereas they dont always do so in this application. I have e perienced this with very cold fluid and slightly when demanding hydro to the trans and lift while attempting to steer.
BLT Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 quote:Originally posted by Talntedmrgreen I have e perienced this with very cold fluid and slightly when demanding hydro to the trans and lift while attempting to steer. id="quote">id="quote">The way the circuit should be laid out is the steering has priority over lift, so if you turn you get almost or nothing on lift.
Brettw Posted May 14, 2014 Author Posted May 14, 2014 Well, I checked the charge relief valves just as a starter of trouble shooting. The valve on the front/side of the pump has two "shims" in it. Contrary to what I read, these shims weren't "feeler gauge" thickness type. They were both the approximate thickness of a standard washer, and both added up to a good 1/8". The charge/implement relief valve on the top/rear of the unit, had no shims that I could see. Without a pressure gauge, I could not determine where I stood. I will have to borrow BLT's gauge to determine where we stand with pressure, etc. Beyond that, I am not sure where to go next. From the post here and feedback, it sounds like some of these just operate this way, even from new, and some have no issue what so ever. Perhaps my local Sim dealer can offer some insight if I cannot figure this out myself.
Talntedmrgreen Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Since I can't 'feel' the lift, I don't know that I would ever notice that...perhaps when moving snow, but doubtful with a deck etc. The steering is very noticable though, if and when it lags.
Burntime Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Josh, thats the presure. My sovereign that I had would do it ever so slightly at idle, if the rpms were brought up at all, it was smooth as silk. Brett, call wales lawn and garden. There is a guy there that had been helpfull to me in the past. Its worth a shot.
Burntime Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 I think that is the guys name!! Winner winner chicken dinner!
Brettw Posted May 14, 2014 Author Posted May 14, 2014 Yeah. I actually have Wales stored in my phone on the contacts list. Good guys. That is whom I was speaking of when I said I would "call my Sim dealer". I have the local hardware store, but other than extremely overpriced (even by Simplicity standards) parts, they are not very knowledgeable on these. The boys at Wales Lawn and Garden are top notch, just like the guys at Schroeder in Sussex.
Brettw Posted May 16, 2014 Author Posted May 16, 2014 Well, with BLT's help, we may have figured out some of the issues. We were able to check charge and implement pressures to determine if the issue was pump or the power steering valve. Charge pump pressure was good and steady @ 190 PSI Implement pressure was a bit low @ 590 PSI. With a shim added to the relief valve, we were able to raise that to 720 PSI, which is within the desired range (ideally between 630-780 PSI). The steering is improved to a measurable degree. In my searches for answers, I was informed by my local Simplicity dealer, per their hydro and PS mechanic, that there were some issues with the power steering unit, and later models had a internal design change to the unit itself. The rotor assembly was changed to provide for better response. Supposedly there is a kit with the updated rotor assembly for the HGF series units. This may explain why some of us have had issues as discussed here, even from new (think, Ray Pope), and some have not. I have not been able to verify this just yet. BLT and I will be putting together a post on all of what we figured out regarding the units, with more detailed info to add to what has been posted on the site. Hopefully, this will help everyone with trouble shooting and basic questions. Thanks to all, and of course, Bob.
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