pbarwick Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 Looking to repower my 1996 Sovereign(Triad) with a Command or other good engine. The shop says conversion/repower parts are hard to come by these days. Anyone have a source for an engine that works and parts? Thanks for your help.
fishnwiz Posted May 14, 2014 Posted May 14, 2014 If it were me I would be looking for a donor engine via Craigslist. A new engine is another option but is going to be very pricey. You also can try to run an ad in the classified section of this site. Best of luck.
Brettw Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Welcome aboard, Patrick, There were repower kits out there, Commands, Hondas and Vanguards amongst others. As I recall, kits, with the proper driveshaft coupling, control cables, muffler, misc., etc., were in the $1,200-1,500 range, depending upon what and where purchased. Some require minor frame modifications. A donor engine could certainly be the way to go, but you do need to be able to figure out what you're actually getting (worn out, proper fit, will it work, etc.), and then weigh costs. If you can see/hear them run, and they are a good engine that will fit, then you have to locate the misc. parts to complete the install. Depending upon how the engine is structured electrically, you may also have to add a relay or change wiring harness/starter switch. All of these parts may take time to locate, but are not impossible to find, especially with the people here. Craig's (as suggested above), e-bay, dealer, or classifieds here or other sites will be the way to go for both engines and all the needed parts. This site will be your best resource for figuring out what will work and all the little nuances to put it all together. It's a nut-hatch here, but a good one, with a lot of bright, helpfull guys.8D
Kent Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Here's one option: http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/CH620S-3078.html?sc=17&category=1710924
pbarwick Posted May 15, 2014 Author Posted May 15, 2014 Will this engine drop in? No new drive shaft and wiring harness? Anyone have any idea?
Burntime Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 You will still need the screen and a slight rewire. This is the command that goes in a sovy, you still have some minor conversion.
Kent Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Too bad Al Eden is no longer around -- he offered complete drop-in conversion kits, with instructions. Someone with more hands-on experience will need to answer the question, but I think only minor rewiring is required.
BLT Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 If memory serves me right, all you need is a new power wire to starter from battery and a signal wire to from existing starter relay to starter solenoid, and lastly add and connect carb solenoid to charging wire in parallel with ignition signal. I did one three years ago.
Burntime Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Yep, Bob is right as usual. I was looking over his shoulder making sure he did it right! Al Edens kits were 2500 bucks... I think he is looking for a lower alternative. Heck, if I did the conversion minus the wiring, its gotta be easy right?
Burntime Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 No, different spacing. You need one from a ch18 thru ch25 that ports the right way. If you find one for 125 or less, snap it up!
Kent Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 quote:Originally posted by BurntimeYep, Bob is right as usual. I was looking over his shoulder making sure he did it right! Al Edens kits were 2500 bucks... I think he is looking for a lower alternative. Heck, if I did the conversion minus the wiring, its gotta be easy right? id="quote">id="quote">Just to keep it real, regarding Al's pricing. I built/maintained his Repower Engineering site. Here's his last (highest) pricing for the repower kit in question:90-0100-170 Replaces Kohler TH engine in Simplicity Sovereign with a Kohler CH18 engine. $2195.00 Different kits were priced differently, and as pointed out in a different reply, the exhaust required was a fairly significant contributor to the cost differences.Al's kits were tested and approved by both Simplicity and Kohler, including heat testing, in order for warranties to be valid... Simplicity referred people to Al.
Burntime Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Kents right on the price, but there was tax and shipping. I almost bought one before I found my command and did the conversion myself... Al's kits were all inclusive. A few hours and basic tools and you were good to go...
leeave96 Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Originally posted by Kentquote: id="quote">I would add that Al was a stand-up guy IMHO. Crazy full of Simplicity knowledge and up to his passing - very passionate about these tractors.I spoke with him on the phone probably a year before he passed - we probably talked a good 30 minutes. Easy going, would not let any question of mine go without a thorough explanation. I still go back and read some of his posts today.What would be great is - if someone had one of Al's repowers and could share the contents with the group for future reference.
DanD Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Originally posted by leeave96quote: id="quote">I would add that Al was a stand-up guy IMHO. Crazy full of Simplicity knowledge and up to his passing - very passionate about these tractors.I spoke with him on the phone probably a year before he passed - we probably talked a good 30 minutes. Easy going, would not let any question of mine go without a thorough explanation. I still go back and read some of his posts today.What would be great is - if someone had one of Al's repowers and could share the contents with the group for future reference.id="quote">id="quote">I got one of Al's kits for my Sovereign. In fact he used pictures I sent him on his website after I got the conversion done. Anyway, I think I still have the directions and the list of contents if anyone is interested in seeing it.
Burntime Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 The wiring harness was made by AL, the rest were standard parts if I remember right. Its just a change over for the starter if I remember right. There is a relay wire on the command and not on the triad. Yes, Al was a great guy! I talked to him twice. Both times I was amazed at what he knew.
Burntime Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 Funny, I just googled repower and my video came up with the CH20. Was a proud day and a victory lap thanks to some help from BLT! and here is the before..
fishnwiz Posted May 15, 2014 Posted May 15, 2014 So what Michael's saying is just drop it off by Bob's (BLT) house and he will have you up and running in no time!
Brettw Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 quote:Bob posts the diagram...then...crickets! LOL.id="quote">id="quote"> He's been busy helping me with my power steering issue. Me thinks we may have it figured out. He can certainly explain how to set up the Bosch relay for the change in ignitions systems. One of Al's kits on my M18, and a relay from BLT on a repowered 7117 I had, and he helped on both.
Burntime Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 Bob is a wiring guru! Glad to hear your on the home stretch Brett!
G21lock Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 I recently bought a replacement "kit" from Small Engine Warehouse for my triad powered Sovereign. When they make up these kits to replace nla engines, they work out every detail, spacing, wiring etc. I bought their last Honda Kit, now they're using a Command. Bolt it in, plug it in. Go.
Brettw Posted May 16, 2014 Posted May 16, 2014 My only thoughts on some of these are, when you start talking $1,500-2,500.00 for an engine kit, you can by entire, good condition, late model Sovereigns with attachments, for less. That is the dilemma that makes for so many scrapped out. If it's me (and that's how you end up with more than one ), I would buy a whole unit, and wait for the right engine to come along. In the long run, up and running, for less money, and two tractors, one always saleable.
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