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victorsnc

Sovereign Re-Power Kohler DISCONTINUED

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rs07

I think Small Engine Warehouse offers a Briggs Vanguard Kit for a substitute. My local dealer just bought one for a repower on a Sovereign they had in the shop. They said everything fitted perfect.

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RayS

Phandad, posted the replacement spec. number a week or so ago. At least I think it wan him. If you are using the mid PTO and not the front, they are pretty much the same.

I have a 20hp Command in mine with a Sunstar spec number.

still available at the link below.

http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/shop/html/pages/products/kohler_horizontal_engines1089.html

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OkieGT

There's a reason it's being discontinued, cost too much to produce, they want a higher profit margin. They know people will buy junkier engines than they are making today for the same money and built by workers who really need jobs, not like Americans, the third world worker is a hungry consumer.

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victorsnc

Looks like we need to buy-up all the Kohler CH640-3110 that are left out there. This is the "Simplicity Spec" 20 HP twin ideal fit for a Sunstar and will fit a Sovereign.

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powerking_one

My take on why the discontinuation of this series of engines is that Kohler was unable to comply with the current C.A.R.B. (California Air Review Board) requirements and the E.P.A.'s ever increasing stringency thereof for emissions. Couple that with the manufacturing costs of the legacy CH's and then having to add to them things like electronic fuel injection, possibly catalytic converter & such, Kohler probably threw in the towel and decided it was better/more cost effective to go with a new engine design. I would bet that Kohler thus sacrifices longevity for the extra cost for all the current emissions crap they will have to include on the next generation motors to stay price competitive.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/smallsi.htm

Tom (PK)

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RayS
quote:Originally posted by victorsnc

RayS - did you mean to say that Kohler is discontinuing the entire Command line of engines???:o


id="quote">
id="quote">No. I meant to say "are not" discontinuing the Command line. I made a mistakesm00. Haven`t found anywhere in a google search that the whole Command series is being discontinued. Just the 62513 spec. number.It was suppose to be my response to "it cost to much to make". I have two Commands. One in the Prestige that I have had since 2001 or 2002 and the other in a Sovereign for the past 3 years. Best motor they made in my opinion. Never had a problem other than a head gasket and that was my own fault.When it more than likely has to do to the fact that the tractor hasn`t been made in nearly 15 years and I can not imagine them selling that spec. no. 62513 which is for the Sovereign to many people. It is like the gator blades for left hand decks. When you make more than you sell eventually they stop getting made.

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victorsnc
quote:Originally posted by Burntime

You could go 23 or 25hp as well with the right shroud...


id="quote">
id="quote">Heads Up!! Kohler has also just discontinued the 24-027-448-S blower housing (engine shroud) that is a must have to convert plastic grass shields to the "metal grass chopper" version. This is surprising because that part number shows up as the blower housing for most every Kohler CH/CV620 to CH/CV750 for mowing machines. It shows up on Grasshopper, Exmark, Ariens, Dixie Chopper. I guess I will be searching Craigslist and Ebay until I find one.8C

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OkieGT
quote:Originally posted by powerking_one

My take on why the discontinuation of this series of engines is that Kohler was unable to comply with the current C.A.R.B. (California Air Review Board) requirements and the E.P.A.'s ever increasing stringency thereof for emissions. Couple that with the manufacturing costs of the legacy CH's and then having to add to them things like electronic fuel injection, possibly catalytic converter & such, Kohler probably threw in the towel and decided it was better/more cost effective to go with a new engine design. I would bet that Kohler thus sacrifices longevity for the extra cost for all the current emissions crap they will have to include on the next generation motors to stay price competitive. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/smallsi.htmTom (PK)


id="quote">
id="quote">My question is why are Californians allowed to have any motorized equipment at all. They have known for a decade, maybe longer that they running out of water, yet they plant and water lawns and fill swimming pools. The word insanity comes to mind

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PhanDad

My 2c on this.

The original Simplicity Sovereign Command CH18S spec # was 62513. It was rated at 18HP, 13.4 kW (624cc).

Apparently the CHxx line was replaced by the CH6&7xx line within the last year or so. The "new" Simplicity Sovereign Command engine became a CH620 spec #3078. It's my understanding that it has also been discontinued. It was rated at 19HP, 14.2 kW (674cc).

The change from CHxx to CH6&7xx may have something to do with this:

New Engine Horsepower Rating Standards

The new SAE J1940 standard requires all engines produced after and including October 1, 2013 must be within 95% of the declared rated power and torque as opposed to the old standard of 85%. SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) has also stated that the engine manufacturer must disclose the rpm for rating and with the GROSS (SAEJ1995) or NET (SAEJ1349) horsepower.

Note: Engine produced before October 1, 2013 are labeled and rated by the old standard.

Above from OPEengines web site (more info in link):

http://www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com/kohler-engines-parts/full-line-of-kohler-engines

Can anyone else confirm my speculation for the change?

And as others have said, many other "replacement" engines will work. Here's one from OPE:

http://www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com/kohler-engines-parts/full-line-of-kohler-engines/command-pro-ch-cv-6-to-40-hp/horizontal-twin-cylinder-ch/ch18-18-19-hp-624cc/18hp-62638-kohler-command-engine-ch18s-walker-ztr

A look at the parts list for the above engine shows a chopper screen blower housing with matching grass screen and pulse fuel pump. Those 2 items are the key to getting a "Simplicity spec" engine without spending extra $$$ to replace them. If you're converting from a Triad, the only thing you'd have to do is cut a hole in the grass screen to match the front drive adapter from the Triad and modify the tractor wiring a bit.

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victorsnc
quote:Originally posted by PhanDad

My 2c on this.The original Simplicity Sovereign Command CH18S spec # was 62513. It was rated at 18HP, 13.4 kW (624cc).Apparently the CHxx line was replaced by the CH6&7xx line within the last year or so. The "new" Simplicity Sovereign Command engine became a CH620 spec #3078. It's my understanding that it has also been discontinued. It was rated at 19HP, 14.2 kW (674cc). The change from CHxx to CH6&7xx may have something to do with this: New Engine Horsepower Rating StandardsThe new SAE J1940 standard requires all engines produced after and including October 1, 2013 must be within 95% of the declared rated power and torque as opposed to the old standard of 85%. SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) has also stated that the engine manufacturer must disclose the rpm for rating and with the GROSS (SAEJ1995) or NET (SAEJ1349) horsepower. Note: Engine produced before October 1, 2013 are labeled and rated by the old standard.Above from OPEengines web site (more info in link):http://www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com/kohler-engines-parts/full-line-of-kohler-enginesCan anyone else confirm my speculation for the change? And as others have said, many other "replacement" engines will work. Here's one from OPE:http://www.kohler-engine-parts.opeengines.com/kohler-engines-parts/full-line-of-kohler-engines/command-pro-ch-cv-6-to-40-hp/horizontal-twin-cylinder-ch/ch18-18-19-hp-624cc/18hp-62638-kohler-command-engine-ch18s-walker-ztrA look at the parts list for the above engine shows a chopper screen blower housing with matching grass screen and pulse fuel pump. Those 2 items are the key to getting a "Simplicity spec" engine without spending extra $$$ to replace them. If you're converting from a Triad, the only thing you'd have to do is cut a hole in the grass screen to match the front drive adapter from the Triad and modify the tractor wiring a bit.


id="quote">
id="quote">A thousand thanks to you PhanDad. That is exactly the information I was looking for. Also thanks for getting this thread out of the coffee-shop and back on tractor topic.

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PhanDad

Victor,

I documented by install of a non-Sovereign CH20 into my 2nd 75th tractor. It's got lots of pics and details. It can be found here:

http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=141658

PS - The part number I had for the Sovereign OEM chopper screen blower housing is 24027189S; it is still available. I think that's the number I used when I added the correct housing/screen to my first 75th. I don't have the order info available atm, but could confirm next week.

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victorsnc
quote:Originally posted by PhanDad

Victor,I documented by install of a non-Sovereign CH20 into my 2nd 75th tractor. It's got lots of pics and details. It can be found here:http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=141658PS - The part number I had for the Sovereign OEM chopper screen blower housing is 24027189S; it is still available. I think that's the number I used when I added the correct housing/screen to my first 75th. I don't have the order info available atm, but could confirm next week.


id="quote">
id="quote">Bill,Thank you, yes please confirm that number - whenever it is convenient for you. I almost have my finger on the send button to order than housing. That is a remarkable post on the 20 HP NOS Kohler! That should become one of the technical articles!

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PhanDad

I feel your need to order, so I checked if OPE keeps a history of what you order. You were in luck.In March 2010 I ordered "Blower Housing Assembly Kit 24027189", cost then $49.47. I don't believe this housing had the mounting holes or whatever else is needed for an external oil cooler. But it did have holes and hardware for the pulse fuel pump as well as others on the starter side of the housing. Also has a key switch hole, but it had a blank to install.Some pics of it installed:

IMG_4805a.jpg

IMG_4807a.JPG

IMG_4815a.JPG

IMG_4817a.jpg

Check it out and hit that send button.

IMG_4805a.jpg.31303b10a0149dcbc9630bf01457732d.jpg

IMG_4807a.JPG.70d6da9f6a88af2ea7fca594177aacad.JPG

IMG_4815a.JPG.915111454d19df9bb90bba73c778eac7.JPG

IMG_4817a.jpg.0036fe301ded255bd582ada07fa47cf4.jpg

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