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Magman

Big Ten

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Magman

I have a Big Ten that I got when my Dad passed away 15 yrs ago. I dont know much about it other than it was a project he acquired shortly before he passed away. I am finally working on it now and trying to get it running. I pulled the head and unstuck the rings. The cylinder and valves all look real good. The engine is a Briggs. The gas tank is rusted through. The tires are holding air by the grace of God. The high-low lever is completely removed and the High-Low unit on the axle and most of the mechanisms under the seat are caked with old grease and dirt. The wiring system is disturbing and gutted. There is a Delco 12V generator that is belt driven to the engine but there is no starter that I can find anywhere. Only one wire is connected to the Generator coming from a start button that originates from the battery. It is my guess that the generator is a duel purpose unit that doubles as a starter and the starter is what is actually wired. I am hoping to get the old girl back in service because I have a number of implements that came with the project. I doubt that without the implements the tractor would be worth much more than scrap but its her 50th Birthday and I would like to see her get a second chance. My question is: Is the Generator also a starter?

I am a new guy- first post. My name is Steve (Magman). I live in St. Louis, Mo. USA. I have excellent mechanical and fabrication skills and appropriate tools.

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fishnwiz

WELCOME Steve!!

Well you have definitely come to the right site! There is plenty help and info available to you and alot of great info on this site in the archives.

You are correct in your assumtion that the starter generator serve a dual purpose.

Before you get too far into all the wiring aspects of your tractor, I would start with the engine by getting her running 1st. I would drain fluids oil ect. and replace the sparkplug. Your going also have to clean the points to get a spark.

There are alot of great videos on YouTube with several really good one's by our member Zippo Varga that will demonstrate a carb rebuild as well as other components on all things Simplicity /Allis Chalmers. You may be able to get by with a good carb cleaning but my guess would be you may need a rebuild kit.You also will want to make sure your S/G Is in working condition to help spin your motor over to start.

Being mechanically inclined, you will have NO problems with anything that will need to be done on hopefully getting her up and running.

We have a bunch real tractor gurus on this site that will help you along the way.

Do yourself a favor and spend the money to become a member and you will be able to post pics as well as access the huge volume of knowledge that is here daily.

Again, Welcome and I am looking forward to following your progress along the way.

Mark

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Talntedmrgreen

Welcome! Looking forward to seeing and hearing of the project. Sounds like you have identified the primary issues and should sort them out in a jiff!

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rokon2813

Welcome to the club.

To answer your question, yes that is a starter generator.

There should be 2 more wires for it, that go to a voltage regulator bolted to the bulk head right behind the engine.

The hi low unit was not on the axle, it was a planetary type unit on the transmission.

It was an option and the tractors all came with the "sticker" by the seat.

The unit on the axle is your differential.

If it has sat that long, I would start by pulling the engine, the flywheel cover very likely is full of mouse nest.

Spark will likely be your next problem. Points are under a cover in front of and just below the carburetor.

You keep asking and we will keep answering. Get it up and running and you will probably fall in love.

What attachments do you have ???

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Magman

I have a mower deck, snow blower, tiller and a front blade. Also there is a home brew 2" ball welded on the back that swings down with the big arm on the left, very weird.

Thanks you guys for all the great intro info. Yes, I only have the sticker as best I can tell. I am happy its not another broken mess.

I'm at work,gotta go.

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Magman

Does anyone have the wiring diagram for the Big Ten that they will share with me? I especially need the diagram for the regulator and starter/generator.

The lead acid battery that I took out is really tall. It has a PN 22nf-500ca specifications: CCA 390 RC 62. Is this still available or a good choice today? I like the Odyssey PS680 for lots of stuff...its an amazing battery! I am not so sure it is compatible with this Starter/Generator setup. Any suggestions most welcome.

thanks

Steve

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Chris727

Welcome aboard. I live near St. Louis too, at Winfield. Seems like there are a good number of Big Ten's in the area. The tractor is worth $$ more than scrap even if it does not run and with no attachments. Its well worth fixing up. The 22NF battery can be had from Batteries Plus and possibly some Auto Parts stores. I have been using the cheap little Rural King lawn mower batteries in mine.

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briggsetc

Steve

You sure found the place. I am one of the many engine guys here.

Assuming you have the original 10hp engine which is a Briggs Model 243431.

After you determine the bore and connecting rod/crank are servicable here is some ignition and carb info.

The Briggs electronic coil number 398811 is a bolt on upgrade if you want to go that way.

I personally like the original,super reliable, point set up. Pick up a condenser 290860 and go through the points. I checked and tuned up my Landlord ignition after 6 years the first time. If the mice got the coil the point version is 298968. Found mine at a flea market for 10 bucks. You will find an extra point wire which grounds them for the stop function.

The "large" Flo-Jet carb is tough to find and expensive but an easy rebuild if yours is ok. You usually just need a top casting to bowl gasket p/n 692215. Get, or make, a tight fitting screwdriver to remove the "nozzle". If the brass "nozzle" is seized you can drill it out CAREFULLY. Contact me on that. Briggs makes a thread tap kit for around 10 bucks to chase the, special size, threads.

My $18.00, 10 years ago, 1964 Landlord turned into the best $500.00 I ever spent. Nothing major. Rings, belts, battery, gen repair, deck bearings, blades, ft wh bearings, coil, seat cover etc etc.

Gary

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Magman

Thanks to all of you for making me feel welcome and for the incredible knowledge base here. Way cool! I will pull the engine this weekend and remove the shroud and check for mouse activity. It appears that the engine needs to come off the tractor to get the engine shroud off. Is this true? After reviewing the wiring diagram for the Landlord I found I am missing the starter solenoid and related wiring. Most all of the other wiring except the big cables is brittle and disintigrating and needs to be replaced prior energizing.

I removed the carb from the intake manifold to remove the homebrew penetrating oil I used to unstick the rings. The engine last stopped (froze)when the intake valve was open so when I initially added the penetrant mix to the spark plug hole, quite a bit went into the carb. The carb looks great from looking in both ends but I have not removed the float bowl or tweeked on the jet(s). I am excited about finally working on the old girl even if she is younger than ME! I was planning to go through a simple exterior engine disassembly inspection and repair without breaking inside the case. After removing the head and seeing how nice the top end looks I think I can drain and flush the oil then replace and call it good for the initial start and run. If the engine sounds good I will let her run for awhile with a big shop fan on the engine. Is running the engine without a complete teardown inspection a bad idea? Is there a minimum amount of work I should do like replacing the rings and bearings?

Many thanks

Steve

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Magman

oops, OK thanks Gary. It sounds prudent to inspect the rod bearing, piston pin and crank bearing surfaces before starting it up. Where do I find the engine specs? I do have an original 243431 as best I can tell. There is a sticker on the back of the deck but it only has the first set of numbers and then the rest of the tag is gone:/ It has an Allis Chalmers sticker (on engine) that identifies the engine as a Briggs. the engine appears to be origianally Yellow but has since beed painted orange. I am unable to tell it the sticker was masked off to paint the orange or if the sticker was added after it was painted orange.

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briggsetc

For complete engine specs I would suggest picking up a factory Briggs "Service and Repair Instructions" manual with the red cover on ebay. There have been a lot on lately. Anything under 20 bucks, total,is a super deal. Briggs also published an Antique engine repair manual recently but it does not cover the 50s - 80s era that good. It is excellent on the older letter series.

Briggs always used min max specs and reject sizes which I never liked.

A serviceable crankshaft throw should be less than .001" out of round.

I like to see .0015" rod to crank clearance but up to .0025" is ok. Maybe stretch to .003". Break out the green Plastigauge.

You could avoid teardown to check the main bearing clearance, for now, if you only feel slight play pulling the crank up and down. It takes major abuse to hurt the mains on the old cast iron Briggs engines.

Gary

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Magman

I printed the manual yesterday from the link and there is a diagram in there that shows the push button start and that diagram has no solenoid in that diagram. My B10 has the start button set up and looks to be wired correctly for the start circuit. The diagram I originally saw had both a voltage regulator and seperate starter solenoid looking just like old GM cars of the same 60's era. I got it off the Simplicity web site for the Landlord which I thought was the same. I have the correct Simplicity 351 operators maunual from the link provided by BLT. thanks.

I have an old Briggs book probably from the correct era but I cant find it on a short search. I will look harder tonight. Thanks for the great engine tips. I am familiar with checking crank play using the up down method. If I feel anything suspicious I will go inside. I cant find any ring rust or rough marks on the cylinder so I think I got lucky. There is also no ring ridge at TDC. This leads me to believe the engine may have pretty low hours. The engine casting looks pretty smooth under the paint as I recall. Usually the cast iron sand castings have a hardy texture to the outer skin. I will check it tonight with a magnet.

I tried to pay dues last night to post some pics but PayPal is not for me. I cancelled my PAypal option shortly after the second generation version came out some years ago because my account got hacked. I will have to snail mail a check and wait it out.

thanks,

Steve

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Magman

I pulled the engine off the tractor tonight. The engine number is stamped on the shroud 243431-0123 02-6604491 but I cant find a match. The crankcase/jug is cast iron and the head is aluminum or some nonmagnetic alloy. There are several aluminum alloy parts on this engine. The round drive disc connecting the engine pulley to the drive shaft is fiberglass or similar. wow! How do I pull the big pulley off the engine to remove the shroud? Does it require a puller or do I remove the many bolts attaching it to the flywheel? There is next to nothing movement up/down on the crank shaft. I was surprised how light the engine is for a big iron casting It must be very thin.

thanks

Steve

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BLT

If you are talking boost fan, you can heat up the hub to get it to get the aluminum expand a bit, then hold the shaft end, try rolling it back and forth and it should break loose and then you can gradually roll it off. You might need some heat to loosen up the four Phillips head screws that hold the screen on.

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Magman

Thanks I will try some heat. Yes, talking boost fan. So the hub is held on by a tapered shaft with no key? There are a few small pieces of screen under two 7/16 hd bolts. I am going to need a new screen for the boost fan.

The other end of the drive shaft under the front of the seat is attached to a unit that is squeeking when rotated. The unit has a friction disc on the left side. Is it an elaborate clutch box? The transmission is in the back and driven by pulleys from this unit in front of it so thinking it is a clutch unit and needs repair. What do I inspect and what usually needs replacing?

The steering system has approx 6" of play measured at the outside diameter of the stearing wheel when rotated (which is totally unacceptable). About 1/2 of the play is in the stearing drive gears and primarily the lower stearing drive gear unit. I loosened the 3 bolts on the lower drive gear unit and tried moving it inboard closer to the other other gear with a big rubber mallet but there was no adjustment. Is there a way to adjust the stearing gears? What commonly needs to be fixed/replaced on the stearing system?

thanks- Steve

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goatfarmer

That's the Bevel Gear Box, or BGB. That's usually what drive attachments, and is what powers the transmission. It might be out of fluid, hence the squeaking. Or it might have been out of fluid for a while, and is now wiped out.

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edlincoln

The part of the crankshaft that the fan unit is mounted on is not tapered. If you remove the two bolts the fan unit should come off by hand, if it's rusty you will need a puller.

If the drive shaft couplings are the early type with the 3/8" rubber between 2 metal they were vulcanized and may have fell apart. I'm working on 2 tractors with delaminated driveshaft couplings.

I found that none of the bolts going into and threw the 1" square x 1-1/2" metal block at the bottom of the steering column have shoulders and the threads are worn causing a good part of the slop in the steering.

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Magman

I have a giant spark at the points and none at the plug. I am guessing the condenser is bad. Is the condenser job to reduce outout to the points? The shielding is burned off the wire going to the coil. The coil is probably fried as well. Several other wires going to the generator were melted or removed. I am going to replace all ignition components re:the coil, points and condenser. I dont know what coil I need because I dont know if its the early or later series coil. My engine number is 243431-0123-02. All I see is -99 not -02. How do I tell which coil I need? Should I just replace the whole system with a later model electronic unit? What electronic unit is correct for my Engine? Thanks :)

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