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Kenh

KT 19 oil leak, and hydraulic valve leak

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Kenh

I pull the engine on my 7119 today. It's had an oil leak since I purchased it (3 years) and it drives me nuts! I had assumed it was the crank seal at the flywheel as the starter was slathered in oil. More on that later. I found that the left hand jug was leaking at the base gasket. The nuts were within 1/8 turn of "tight". Now I don't know if I should just tighten the nuts or pull the jug, probably do both sides, and seal it up properly.

EDIT: I should add the engine runs like a top. Starts every time almost instantly. No smoke though I did find excessive oil in the air cleaner. May be a function of the oil leak or crankcase breather issue.

So, I've never been into a KT series engine. Can the jugs be pulled in their entirety with the heads on so I can replace the base gaskets? Maybe just forget the gaskets and silicone them??? EDIT: Can't do that as that may force the top ring into any ring ridge causing damage to the piston or cylinder.

I also found a major repair. The foot behind the flywheel on the right side had been welded back on! It took a good size of the case with it. The repair looks very professional and I'm pretty sure no leak there. When I pulled the engine I found a THIN washer under that foot and I wondered why it was there. I found out!!

The hydraulic valve also leaked when I bought the tractor. I found a quad ring that appeared to be leaking. My local CAT dealer had a "pretty darn close" match. One of the dimensions was off a bit but we both thought it would work. Well it still leaks. I'll see if I can find a backup ring to give it a bit more squease. I hope that works.

The stater being slathered in oil caused it to not engage when cold, like winter cold. I had to warm it up so the oil would let the drive spin up to the flywheel. I couldn't get the nut off the shaft that holds the drive on even with my impact. I didn't hold the shaft. So I just sprayed the shaft/drive with brake cleaner until it was clean working the drive back and forth by hand.

Now the gear will spin in both directions. I didn't notice if it did that before. I assume not. Is this drive a "bendix" drive or just an inertia drive like a Briggs? I hope I didn't screw it up!

Sorry for the long post. I'll shut up now:D

Ken

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MikeES

You might want to tighten up the cylinder nuts, clean up the engine and run on the bench and see if the leak is gone.

To remove the cylinder you have a large job. Remove intake and exhaust. Then if you remove the jugs you will have to hone the cylinders and install new rings on the pistons, you might as well do an overhaul at that point.

You can try to pull the cylinders away from the case but not far enough so the piston comes out (this will save putting on new rings). Then apply RTV sealant and bolt the cylinder back on. To put on new base gasket the cylinder has to come off.

The kohler starter is a bendix drive, and it is very fussy about being clean. Only use very light lube (WD-40 type).

The old rings will have a "set' that matches the cylinder wear and no way to get that back together exactly as it was.

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Kenh

I have the intake, exhaust, flywheel and all the shrouds off the engine and used the pressure washer on it this afternoon. It's clean and ready to make the "repair" what ever that may be. I have reused rings in the past. I know rings rotate as engines I've rebuilt and I've taken apart later, the rings are not lined up as they were assembled.

I was afraid you'd say that about the starter drive. I'll have to disassemble the starter to get the armature out so I can clamp it a vice so I can loosen the nut that holds the drive on. I have a feeling the engine has been overhauled at some point. Maybe it was dropped at that point and broke the case. I edited my first post to say the engine runs perfect except for some oil in the air cleaner.

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Kenh

Yes I know the gaps are not aligned on assembly. BUT, I've seen rings that were assembled with ring gaps 180 degrees apart on assembly not be that way after teardown. One case was a re-ring for a guy that did not add oil after an oil change. I replaced the rod and ground the crank. The ring gaps were within 1/4 inch of being aligned. I'm reasonably certain I'm the only person who worked on the engine. I know rings aren't supposed to do that but it appears this set didn't get the memo.

Ken

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MikeES

Ken, you do not need to take the nut off. Liberal amounts of WD-40 and working the bendix back and forth will clean it up. You still may want to take the starter apart to clean and check brushes.

Oil in the air cleaner suggests that the breather may need some work...but if the breather is good then you may have some excess blow by caused by rings and exhaust valve guides.

With that clue about oil in the air cleaner, and you have the engine pretty much tore down, I would put new rings on the pistons. You can seal the cylinders to the case with either a new gaskets or without a gasket with RTV. If you use RTV you gain about .020+ of compression. The Magnum 20 engines did not use a gasket which probably why they were 1 more hp than the KT19.

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Kenh

The engine is back together. Not run yet but assembled. I want to take a good look at the hydraulic valve before the engine goes back in. MUCH easier now than later.

After looking at the service manual http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/tp_2043_a.pdf I discovered the cylinders can be pulled without removing the pistons from the cylinders. The service manual has you put the pistons in from the top and shove them down far enough to install the wrist pins below the bottom of the cylinder. Of course this was discovered when I was looking for valve clearance specs. One was done the hard way putting the piston in from the bottom. The second one went smooth removing the wrist pin and pulling the jug. New gaskets were "cut" using the lid to a roll of Scotch Supper 77 electrical tape for the cylinder pattern. The rest was done with a ball peen hammer to cut the holes and outline by tapping the gasket material with the hammer against the cylinder.

Funny how there can be to much blow buy and the engine shows no sign of oil consumption. The cylinder I removed the piston had very little carbon buildup and both plugs are a nice color with no oil fouling what so ever. The piston showed almost no wear, as did the cylinder. I may very well wind up replacing the rings but I'll give it a little time to show me something to indicate the need.

Thanks for all the advice. A second opinion is always welcome. I'll get the engine installed soon and give a report on the outcome.

Ken

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Kenh

I pulled the hydraulic valve off the 7119 tonight. I found a major leak as the flair broke off one of the steel tubes that run back to the hydrostat unit. The other flair doesn't look so good either. I believe they should both be a double flair and the not so good one is a single flair. The other flair is no place to be seen!!!

The other leak is on the bottom side of the shuttle valve. There is a quad ring which seals the valve. I replaced this ring with a part from the local cat dealer. At the time I didn't remove the valve so inspection was difficult at best. Tonight I noticed the quad ring sets below the surface of the place it fits. It appears there should have been a metal??? ring staked in place to hold the quad ring. This was not present at my previous repair.

I'm attempting to make a ring but if anybody has an exploded view of the valve it would be nice to confirm my suspicions. I DO NOT have the Cessna valve. I have the other one what ever brand it is.

Thanks for the help!!

Ken

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Kenh

UPDATE:

After closer examination the quad ring does not need to be staked into place. There is a recess in the valve body the quad ring sets into. The quad ring needs a "backup ring" to make up some of the space above it. On top of the backup ring is a washer which is held in place by a screw in cap which protects the spool centering spring. The cap will press on the washer which will squeeze the quad ring providing the seal.

I had a plastic washer I enlarged the hole in and then trimmed the outside to the correct OD. It looks like I will get about .015" squeeze on the quad ring. This is/should be just about right???? I hope to make everything seal up nice and tight.

Now on to making some new flairs on the steel tubes from the hydro unit.

Ken

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TheLawnMowerMan

Was this a series 1 or series 2? Mine is a series 1 and it leaks fairly badly when running. I am wondering if mine has the same leak yours had, as I was thinking it is the crank seal on the flywheel side. I did notice oil on the tins on the left side of the engine. Anyway I just was curious.

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Kenh

It's a series 1 engine.

I had the same thoughts about the crank seal. You might want to check your valve cover gaskets. Mine weren't leaking but they didn't look to healthy and were hard as bricks. Both are now silicone.

Ken

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Kenh

A "new" problem has cropped up. At some point in it's life one of the steel hydraulic lines rubbed on the drive shaft and rubbed it "real thin". It looks like a hole has developed. I am thinking about just adding a bit of silver solder (the brass colored stuff) to the worn spot. I thought about regular solder but am skeptical of the strength. the hole is on the inside of the bend near the front where it turns to run to the back of the machine.

In case this fails, does anybody have a set of lines from a parts tractor they might consider selling? Thank you!

Ken

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Kenh
quote:Originally posted by TheLawnMowerMan

Thanks, I'm going to look at it. I already bought a complete gasket set, and am getting rings for it also.


id="quote">
id="quote">Can I be snoopy and ask what your gasket set cost and what does it include?I got everything back together this morning. The engine fired right up and so far no oil leaks. The only issue is a runaway governor. I have to assume I moved the arm on the governor shaft. That will have to wait a day or two as I have some other projects that are a priority at the moment.I do have to ask... You move the throttle to wide open and move the governor to full spee also and tighten everything up. It's been a while since I've had to do this.Thanks!Ken

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MikeES

Ken, recently bought a complete gasket set for M18/M20 with rings on e-bay for $135. I have not installed it yet but it looks good and complete! The price from the same seller is the same for the KT engines.

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TheLawnMowerMan

Sorry I just now seen you asked me a question. The gasket set is $138 from a Kohler dealer. It has every gasket for the engine, valve seals, new breather element and gasket. It has the crank seals also.

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Kenh
quote:Originally posted by Ronald Hribar

I would not use engine until that is fixedFrom what I understand problem is internal


id="quote">
id="quote">I have to beleive I moved the governor arm sometime during the gasket replacement. The engine/governor were fine when I shut it off prior to the repair. I suppose it's possible something happened but I don't know that for sure. I'll do the governor adjustment first. Other priorities first.KenEDIT: The repair to the steel hydraulic line was a success. I cleaned up the worn area and dabed on some of the silver solder to replace the steel that had been worn away. I applies a little zinc paint to keep it from rusting and you can't even see the repair. I used a regular propane torch ans it was plenty hot enough.

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