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brownkalan

AC 410S Charging Issue

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brownkalan

Good Afternoon. My first post here, so I apologize if I am in the wrong place.

Here is the situation on my 410S Garden Tractor:

1. A month or so ago I was mowing for the first time this year and after about 20 minutes the mower kicked off. And I could only keep it running at idle and then not at all.

2. So, I thought that the battery may be bad, so I replaced it.

3. Then that didn't seem to do it, so I though maybe the regulator wend bad since it seemed like it wasn't charging. (I'm new to small engine mechanics). I replaced the regulator.

4. That didn't help, so I did some more reading and then more testing with my multimeter and found that the ignition switch did not have continuity across the post that ran to the regulator. So after 2 attempts to get he right switch, I replaced that.

5. No dice. So I did some more digging and tested the stator and verified that it passed both the voltage and resistance checks mentioned elsewhere. I verified that the proper voltage was coming out of the regulator and that continuity existed between the regulator and batter when the key is on.

6. So, the current state is: If I charge up the battery, it starts and runs very well. Then if I turn on the mower deck while just sitting there, it will run for a couple minutes and then it quits and I end up where I started.

So, I am looking for any advice to get me to the next step.

I will note that it seems like if I remove a terminal and charge the battery (or completely unhooked), it will charge faster or more fully. This is not a definite, it just seems that way because when charging while battery is hooked up it takes much longer to get to a charge capable of starting the tractor. But, this makes me think that there is something drawing power where it shouldn't be.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Kalan Brown

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hurleyii

I'd inspect all the wires that have constant power looking for a grounding point. Also make sure all the connections for the switches and relays and what not are all good. My resetting circuit breaker is bad on my 7112 completely rusted out internally.

If that shorts out I think it will kill the tractor.

Also if you have a front pto safety switch bypass and the electrical tape around it falls off or you remove it it will kill the tractor or cause a hard to start as it keeps overloading the circuit breaker!

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BLT

Do you have a rectifier-regulator on your engine? In other words do you have two wires coming out of the fan shroud connecting to a square electrical device and then one wire running to key switch?

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powerking_one

Kalan,

I assume this has a Kohler K241 engine with points ignition and a electric PTO clutch? Have you confirmed the charging system is working by measuring the battery voltage at mid to full throttle and it is above about 13 volts? If so, then there is a parasitic current drain somewhere in the wiring/electrical system. With the PTO off and the breaker points open, lights/other accessories off, put your multimeter in current mode in series with the positive battery post and positive battery cable. Turn the ignition switch to ON (engine not running) and there should be less than 20mA or so of current draw (or Zero) if "normal". If it is way higher or puts the metering into OL (over limit) display, then you'll have to trace down the branches of the +12V wiring/feed circuits by disconnecting them one at a time in the electrical system. This can be sometimes challenging (especially in car electrical systems). Have a copy of the wiring diagram to assist.

Tom (PK)

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brownkalan

Thank you for the replies.

It is a K241 with an electric clutch.

I have confirmed that the stator is producing 33 vac at full throttle. Also the regulator/rectifier is producing around 14 volts dc and there is continuity to the switch and then on back to the battery. The battery voltage is at around 14 volts while running at first, but it doesn't seem steady (jumping up and down +/- a few volts (maybe that's normal, I don't know)). Then once it dies and I check it it is very low, but continues to climb in voltage back to around 12vdc. This is with it off, but at this point will not have enough amperage to crank over without additional charging.

I was thinking that there might be some draw from a ground or other bad connection. Thanks for the advice on how to start troubleshooting.

I will let you all know how it goes. I may not be able to for a few days as we as prepping for our son's birthday party this weekend.

Thanks again.

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BLT

If you have battery voltage back to the rectifier with the engine off , it could be draining battery voltage. Most or all systems now disconnect the regulator when ignition switch is turned to off.

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brownkalan

So, just to update on my status:

I have confirmed that the charging system is working correctly as Tom indicated above. I also performed the test you described and found a fraction of a mA, so that would appear normal by your description, but it still seems to have something parasitic happening.

I have been checking wiring without luck yet.

I replaced the main wires coming off the battery, as they seemed slightly old.

The tractor will run for several minutes very well but still kicks off even without the mower engaged.

So, any other ways to check for current "leaks"?

Also, do you think the PTO Pilot light not working would cause any kind of draw?

Thanks for any help, as the grass just keep growing!

Best,

Kalan

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powerking_one

Kalan,

It sounds like you have covered all of the basic electrical checks here regarding the B+ and charging system. There could be an intermittent short internally with the ignition coil and/or condenser once getting hot. I would suggest checking for spark at the plug once this no-run condition happens. Also measure the + 12V at the coil terminal for sanity when it is in "dead" mode. This is a 12V Delco-Remy coil system, correct? I do not remember ever seeing one of these coils fail before BTW. I'm very suspicious of the condenser electrically breaking down/shorting out. Finding the gremlins in electrical/wiring systems can be a royal P.I.T.A.

Tom (PK)

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brownkalan

So, for an update.

Since last posting, I replaced the condenser and the PTO switch (it was bleeding about 5v when off). These did not fix the problem.

SO, I have been talking with an old friend who has had these tractors for a long time. First thing he said was get rid of the lawn and garden "cheesy" battery. So, we did that and it helped with the hard starting issues because of lack of charge. Then he helped me retest all the things described above. Everything seemed OK.

So, since we hadn't tried it yet, I took the positive terminal off the battery while running. It died. So we re-confirmed a charging system issue. He was looking through an old manual he has and found a note penciled in about the clamp that holds the stator wires (which is also at the ground for the solenoid). The note said potential rub spot. So, sure enough I undid the claim and one of the stator wires was bared to the clamp, and so grounded. A nickel's worth of electrical tape later, I was able to mow for over 2 hours without problem last night. So (for now) I think its fixed. At least I learned a ton about this machine and will be able to troubleshoot better next time and I have some new spare parts.

Thanks all for your help.

Kalan

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