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PhanDad

Single Cylinder Briggs Questions & Issue

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PhanDad

I recently picked up a 1978 7016H tractor with single cylinder Briggs. Some pics; gear tooth starter:

IMG_8983a.JPG

as expected.BUT

IMG_8974a.JPG

Points - unexpected.And

IMG_8984a.JPG

Unusual wiring and no external rectifier.This engine falls between my knowledge of the older "rope pull" engines with points and starter/generator and the newest engines with gear tooth starter, magnetron ignition, alternator/external rectifier. A check of the parts manual/wiring diagram shows this is basically what it's supposed to be except there isn't an AC "light" feed circuit. I tried the lights and they work WITHOUT the engine running so they must be wired to the battery rather than the AC "light" feed. I noticed the red circled item that might be the AC "light" connector:

IMG_8985a.JPG

Is this correct?Can this flywheel accommodate the "regular" 15(10?)amp alternator with external rectifier? Or is a different flywheel required?And if you want to get rid of the points (and stay with magneto) the choices are a MegaFire or Magnatron armature requiring repolarization of the flywheel. Correct?And the issue - a hurting gear tooth starter. A couple of videos; a "good" start:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6d7Ms9ELCI&feature=youtu.bea "bad" start:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ7vf-M4PWA&feature=youtu.beAt times it sounds like the battery is low; I'll have to put a voltmeter on it and see if the voltage is down. Or is it another issue? Repairable? or Replacement?Thanks in advance for your help.Engine info: 326437 0252-01 7709291

IMG_8983a.JPG.193e70628d408c614607f7ce1ae1e15f.JPG

IMG_8974a.JPG.480434989e8f045b9b194bc11aeb8890.JPG

IMG_8984a.JPG.ca6fa7ef4b64ba08fa0b091a1e027e15.JPG

IMG_8985a.JPG.c94fd633a550a4e0b81618cea86f82ef.JPG

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dentwizz

That engine type has an alternator under the flywheel in my repowered HB112. I put a rectifier on in addition to the S/G system for that added charging ability. It almost sounds like there may be a short in the alternator's windings if you are getting battery throughput without motion or a rectifier.

On the Magnetron, definitely a good candidate. If you open it up to look at the alternator setup it would be prime time to swap the coil system over.

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Chris727

I'm trying to remember but I think on my '78 7016 (gear type-starter) there was no regulator. The solenoid should be mounted under the dash. The magnetron equipped engines didn't come about until the early 80's.

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Simplicity7013H

My cousins 1978 7016H has points on it because I remembered we borrowed that to test another engine. As for the starter, my 4211 does that sometimes ( the grinding / rubbing). I found that on mine, the starter gear was retracting before voltage to the starter was cut. Will see if I can get it to do it and take a video. I would start out with changing the gear if its plastic like mine.

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powerking_one

Bill,

According to the Briggs service manual, they reference that the various charging systems (5 & 9 amp) and (10 & 16 amp) differences are the magnet sizes on the flywheel(s). Your engine appears to have the dual circuit type with the red wire 3amp D.C. and the A.C. white connector (~~ 70watts max) for lighting. So to me, this was a replacement engine from some other non-Simplicity application?? Also, factory equipped Magnetron engines didn't ship until after 8/1/81 as I recall; yours is 9/29/77.

Tom (PK)

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1978Simplicity7016H
quote:Originally posted by Simplicity7013H

My cousins 1978 7016H has points on it because I remembered we borrowed that to test another engine. As for the starter, my 4211 does that sometimes ( the grinding / rubbing). I found that on mine, the starter gear was retracting before voltage to the starter was cut. Will see if I can get it to do it and take a video. I would start out with changing the gear if its plastic like mine.


id="quote">
id="quote">Yes, my 7016H has points, but they are disconnected. I found this out because when the points were still off of it, I went to start it forgetting it was apart. As soon as I realized it was apart, it started. So, yes, my cousin is correct it does have points, but they are not connected.

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BLT

That engine looks to be a factory install. I am in Gulf Shores, Al as of this writing, but will look to see if Simplicity used that engine in their mix Sunsay when I get home.

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Simplicity7013H
Originally posted by 1978Simplicity7016H
quote:
id="quote">Oh. Didn't know that. Figured out the same with my go kart engine yesterday. Points but not connected.

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PhanDad

Thanks for all your comments and info.I've done a little more investigating.I believe the engine is the original; the PO made no mention of replacing the engine. As Tom (PK) stated, the alternator system is dual circuit. And the unusual wiring matches the wiring harness parts diagram for my mfr #1690342 7016H:

7016H_EngineWiring.JPG

The white "lights" wire was removed from the Briggs engine connector (circled in red as above), and a ring terminal added to the wire and it was connected to the battery side of the solenoid (circled in blue) as seen in this pic:

IMG_8985b.JPG

On the DC red wire, under the black cap, I believe there is diode to rectify the alternator produced AC to half-wave DC. The DC is unregulated and I guess the engineers figure you can't overcharge the battery with only 3 amps max at 3600rpm.Also as Tom (PK) stated, the max DC output of the alternator systems is determined by the magnets in the alternator and flywheel type. So, based on the Briggs parts manual, for this engine, the max DC output is 10 amps based on the flywheel; no info on alternator magnets. I'm going to make another post about converting this particular system to the more traditional regulated system. As to the points, I'm thinking there are points under the cover. I haven't checked yet, but doubt the PO would have through all the effort to convert to a Magnetron ignition. Chris, the solenoid is mounted low on the engine block (as can be seen in the first pic of the original post. I never saw one there before; either on top of the engine with the S/G bracket or behind the dash. I thought it was going to be mounted behind the dash. As to the starter, I'd appreciate additional comments. I plan to disconnect and clean all the electrical connections and then check the voltage at the starter when cranking. Or maybe the clutch part of the starter is dirty or worn too much. Can you remove the starter without pulling the engine?

7016H_EngineWiring.JPG.d7c93ae3392076c6300ea833e07d7e79.JPG

IMG_8985b.JPG.77fd117e4a5eeebf19a854ea26e684d5.JPG

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powerking_one

Bill,

If this engine date code looks to be "period correct" for the tractor, then I would agree that the P.O. moved the lighting circuit over to the B+ for whatever reason. Maybe the A.C. circuit/winding crapped out? With only 3 amps max from the D.C. side, and running the headlights on in this configuration will certainly discharge the battery over time/net loss of battery capacity. 3amps D.C. x 12 volts is ~~36 watts; VS ~~ 70 watts from the A.C. "white connector" lighting circuit. Agreed that Briggs used a diode in this 3amp D.C. setup without a regulator so it could never overcharge the battery.

The starter should come out without pulling the engine. Based on the horrible sounds it made in the video, I'd suggest tearing it apart, cleaning and lubricating it. The drive gear is known to be a high wear item, so I'd have a new one on hand assuming the worst.

Tom (PK).

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BLT

7016H, 16 ,1690342, 326437, 0252-01†

7016-6 Speed, 16, 1690341, 326437, 0252-01†

7014S, 14, 1690337, 326437, 0252-01†

The above three, model, hp, product , Briggs M/n, Briggs type were used in MY 1978.

You try a voltmeter on that and you'll be surprised how quickly the voltage recovers. My 718 has a split system with an electric lift and it works OK, even with UT 350 battery.

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