Maunal Clutch Slipping

[RMCII1 0]

The issue I am having is when I engage the pto, the pulley slides into the cone clutch, but it takes a couple seconds for the pulley/belt to start spinning. I had the PTO - Clutch adjustment manual sent to me, it is within specs. I am guessing that the pulley or cone is worn out and needs replaced. This is on a Sovereign 18 Hydro with the Kohler Command Engine. Is there anything I can try before I spend that much on a new set up from Parts Tree? Also, does anyone have any leads on where I might find the parts cheaper?

Rob

[BLT 718]

When you engage the clutch, is there a metal to metal grinding noise?

[PhanDad 3,616]

See these posts:

http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=112854

http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=127537

http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=137517

[RMCII1 0]

No metal to metal grinding noise, but the under side of my fender is coated with what I would call "brake dust" material. Powdery stuff.

[RMCII1 0]

I did forget to ask this. Is it possible to just remove the cone without needing a "C" clamp to hold the pulley in place, or will the lever that engages the pto hold it in place as long as it is not in the "engaged" position?

Rob

[BLT 718]

quote:Originally posted by RMCII1

I did forget to ask this. Is it possible to just remove the cone without needing a "C" clamp to hold the pulley in place, or will the lever that engages the pto hold it in place as long as it is not in the "engaged" position?Rob

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id="quote">

id="quote">You need the "C" clamp to compress the coil spring to get the nut on the shaft.

[RMCII1 0]

Thanks - BLT. Does the "belt routing assembly" then also need to come off, or can I compress it another way? I don't believe I need to break it all the way down, just take off the cone clutch.

[Brettw 1,130]

I don't think you need a "C" clamp to remove the cone clutch. If you do choose to remove more than that, you need to do a number of things. The lever to engage / disengage will hold the pulley assembly back in the "disengage" position. I could be mistaken, but if you are just replacing the cone the biggest issue you may have is getting it off. I use a three jaw puller. Plan on a new nut or some locktite.

[RMCII1 0]

What is used to keep the entire shaft from turning so you can loosen the nut away from the clutch? I was looking for some sort of slot that would allow you to keep opposite pressure on the shaft so I could break loose the nut.

Rob

[PhanDad 3,616]

I use a large screw driver thru the BGB yoke ( input shaft). Let it edge itself against the side plate.

[CarlH 419]

Or use an impact wrench. Simplicity says use a new locknut every time. I tighten the new locknut with my impact after applying Loctite.

[RMCII1 0]

quote:Originally posted by CarlH

Or use an impact wrench. Simplicity says use a new locknut every time. I tighten the new locknut with my impact after applying Loctite.

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id="quote">

id="quote">Do you have a photo of this? I understand the theory, but my BGB has no place to "insert" the screwdriver through. I was thinking there should be a place you could do that, but I did not see anyplace where it would work.Rob

[PhanDad 3,616]

Access from under the tractor:

[RMCII1 0]

That makes a whole lot more sense to use that vs. what the manual says to do. Copied straight out of the manual:

5. If you are removing the PTO to repair the bevel gear

box or transmission, remove the nut (B, Figure 4).

Restrain rotation of the shaft by applying a pipe

wrench to the hub on the back side of the pulley (C,

Figure 4). Do not remove the pulley (C, Figure 4).

Leave it temporarily in place, so the pipe wrench can

be applied to its hub when removing a nut on the

other end of the shaft a later step.

6. Begin removal of the power take-off pulley assembly

(A, Figure 5) by removing cotter pins (A, Figure 4).

Capscrew (C, Figure 5) must be removed in order to

remove power take-off pulley assembly (A, Figure 5).

Remove pulley assembly from the side plates.

Replace cotter pins to prevent loss. Replace capscrew

(C, Figure 5).

7. Remove the nut (F, Figure 5), restraining rotation of

the shaft with the pipe wrench applied to the pulley

hub as in step 5.

8. Remove the clutch

In my opinion using a PIPE WRENCH on the opposite pulley hub would leave teeth marks from the wrench, thus making an area where the belt would fray.

Rob

[RMCII1 0]

BTW - still have not heard anyone chime in on a more reasonable priced clutch hub...... Anyone got a spare lying around? I know they can also be rebuilt, have not found a shop yet in Cleveland that can rebuild one.

Rob

[GregB 941]

Pipe wrench on the hubid="red"> of pulley on other end of BGB Shaft. Where the set-screw usually holds pulley to shaft.

I did not used C clamp, I used a parrellel jaw wood clamp, the kind with two screw handles.

Some guys have replaced worn "brake" clutch friction material with leather glued in with contact cement.

[PhanDad 3,616]

OEM procedure does not put stress on bevel gears so it's a better method. Mine is a short cut.

[RMCII1 0]

I am sure OEM has it's reason, but it seems it would leave a scar, on the pulley that the belt would start fraying.

Rob

[CarlH 419]

When I use an impact wrench, I just hold the clutch plate with my other hand. Nothing else. The impulses break the torque not just raw torque from a cheater bar. It is also much gentler than raw torque. Of course, instantaneously, the impact is applying a rather high torque, but it isn't long enough to break stuff. I learned this from a mechanic friend after I had twisted off or broke way too many bolts. As my friend said, "a cheater bar has no conscience.' BTW a cheater bar is that 6 feet piece of pipe you put on the Craftsman breaker bar because it is warranted against breaking. Also BTW, I have broken a Craftsman breaker bar. :I

I also use an impact to loosen Briggs flywheel nuts. I use a torque wrench to tighten them properly. On the clutches I don't bother with the torque wrench.

[RMCII1 0]

Picked up a new clutch plate yesterday, along with a new key and nut. Once the new one was on, I noticed there was about 1/64" play with the new clutch plate. Meaning I could slide it in towards the pulley and out towards the nut 1/64". I did readjust the clutch to it's proper 1/8" travel. It all works perfect, there is no "rotational" play with the clutch plate or the pulley. I did see the retainer clip that the clutch plate rides up against. That was not missing. My PTO is adjusted all the way "in" to get the 1/8" travel distance for the pulley. Once the PTO is engaged, the clutch plate stays up against the nut. It does not drift back and forth only if I push on it. Anything more I should try, or will it be ok like this?

Rob

[Brettw 1,130]

If by "clutch plate" you mean the cone clutch itself, the last part you put on before the nut to complete the assembly, there should not be any play. If you installed a new snap ring, and the cone clutch is not damaged or worn, there should not be any play it should tighten up against the snap ring and appear to be one with the shaft, solid and not moving.

Are you sure the entire shaft isn't moving slightly?

[RMCII1 0]

No it is the cone clutch itself.

[Brettw 1,130]

So, the cone clutch moves on the shaft even after tightening the lock nut and torqueing it down? My guess would be a bad cone, or more likely the snap ring is not in place. Did you put a new snap ring on? Thye recommend that so it stays tight in the groove until the clutch is snuged around it.

[RMCII1 0]

I did, and the cone clutch I measured against the one I took off. The new one was purchased from Simplicity and still had the OEM sticker on the back of it. The only other item I starting to wonder about is the moon key I replaced. I purchased that new also. Maybe that was slightly smaller than the original one. Again, that was purchased at Simplicity also. The snap ring is so flimsy, it seems it's only purpose is to hold it back against the nut to take up the play that I see currently with mine.

Rob

[Brettw 1,130]

Well. The key should be tight and not allow rotational movement. They will stay that way forever practically, if the cone clutch is tight laterally on the shaft. So are we talking lateral movement, or rotational movement? Either way if all is installed correctly and the parts are good there should not be any movement in either direction. Pull the cone clutch again and check the snap ring. When you slide th cone clutch on it should butt up against the snap ring. There should then be exposed threads for the lock nut, and they should continue beyond flush on the cone clutch. The nut should snug the clutch tight to the snap ring. Add a washer if need be? I don't recall a washer and if you need one something is likely not right, but add one if that fixes the issue. Again, when installed properly with good parts, the cone clutch and shaft should be as one.

Good luck!