Old vs. New

[Dutch 4]

Woody, Toast & Beer - Muffins & Grog - Waffles & Ale, all sound tractor related to me. What are cupholders for?

[Dutch 4]

Whenever I hear the expression, “They don’t make ‘em like they used to.” My response is, “Thank God!” Can anyone tell me what was once made better than what is made today? Homes, tools, clothes, appliances, cars, garden tractors? Just make sure you compare apples to apples. List price for a 1961 Allis B-1 was approximately $700. That was about 10% of the average working man’s yearly salary back then. If you want to spend 10% of your present yearly “household income” on a garden tractor, you can still buy one just as good, maybe better. Don’t compare a riding lawn mower with a garden tractor. A Regent may be great for what it is designed to do, but it is not made to do the work of a Sovereign. Consumers are their own worst enemy. If “quality” sold, mass production would lower prices. That $300 power tool, that could last a lifetime, may sell for $100 if enough were sold. But, consumers demand the $49.95 specials that may only last a year if used hard.

[Woodydel 0]

Toasters. They all claim to make toast and don't. There is one 90 miles from me in upstate NY at the Woodbury Commons where they sell a toaster which my wife would not let me buy since it cost at the time $125.00. Why was it so good? Because it was retro with big wide filaments that will last and actually make enough heat to toast my English muffin on the first try. As you said Dutch my wife only wanted the $35.00 toaster and what I wanted was what was common when I was a kid not special. Wheh! I gotta go get that toaster. Lumber. What's available today is garbage and that includes pine,oak,walnut etc. I swear one day the growth rings will be so wide one ring will span the width of a 1x12. Well, maybe not that wide heh heh heh. I want to clarify my statement. You can surely purchase quality but it used to be common to find tight grain lumber at any lumber yard. Forget about even including Home Depot and Lowes line of crap. Cars broke down most of the time in the past, tires blew out if you did 80, doors flew open in a crash and it was a miracle to hit 100,000 miles. Now even a cheap Japanese car can be purchased with 100,000 mile warranty. I collect old Forward Control Jeeps with F134 engines and they actually wanted you to lubricate the distributor!! Remember, big trucks struggling to get up a hill? Now they fly. Cars and trucks huge improvement.....Woody

[Dutch 4]

Woody, “Toasters,” funny you should mention that. Ours just crapped out last night, so I’m in the market. I also have the same problem with English Muffins (fork split Thomas’ of course). Do you remember the name of that “retro” job you saw? “Lumber,” hmm. That’s the stuff they used to build structures with in the “old days,” right? High quality TGIs and steel framing, properly installed with high quality adhesives and fasteners, that’s the way to go today. “Cars.” My young friends don’t understand my indifference at car shows. I drove many of those “great old classics.“ Was happy when I traded them in after they started leaking oil, loosening up, and rusting out.

[Kent 436]

Herb, That's exactly why I have no qualms about "updating" an old car or tractor with more modern components UNLESS they are in good enough shape and complete enough to be valuable as a collectors item... My B-210 now has a hydro, and I considered adding a Vanguard, but I've now located a 16HP instead... My '53 VW Beetle sits on a 1967 frame (ball joints instead of king pins, hydraulic brakes instead of manual), with a 1973 57HP engine. I really don't want to contend with 28HP and cable brakes... I guess I kind of like the best of both.... Kent

[Woodydel 0]

Dutch, I actually have to go there and look for the outlet that sold them without knowing either the name of the toaster or the outlet. Here's the Woodbury Commons Outlet directions: Name of the store: Williams Sonoma 845-928-4956 They cost from $99-159. They are refurbished. They have a guarantee. New they cost hundreds. Order from the store direct for cheaper price than website. NY State Thruway (I-87) to Harriman exit 16...Woody[A href='http://www.williams-sonoma.com/cat/pip.cfm?grp=4026']http://www.williams-sonoma.com/cat/pip.cfm?grp=4026[/a]

[Dutch 4]

Woody, It looks great! Nice wide slots so the "nubs" don't get knocked off the English Muffins (I hate when that happens). Cheaper at the store, huh?! Sounds like a good excuse for me to tour "Simplicity Country". Judy should understand the logic of "saving" money.

[Dutch 4]

Woody, You really got me interested in those Dualit toasters. I must confess, I never heard of them. Seems like the perfect mate for Judy’s 50 pound Kitchen Aide mixer. Dualit has a website. But, here’s a story about a lady that doesn’t like the new ones. There’s also a bunch of Dualits on eBay. I could have sent you an email about this, but maybe other guys like properly toasted English Muffins before mowing the lawn.

[StinKy 0]

Hey guys this is the "real thing". Was my Grandmother's and dates back somewhere in the 1930's. It's the weapon of choice whenever waffles are to be made. It was made by the Dominion Mfg. Co. Mansfield Ohio. Wish I had a dollar for every waffle that thing has made! I have a toaster from the same era, the sides fold out, put the bread slices in it, close up the sides and she toasts. As far as "new" appliances go you can find quality but usually only in commercial grade. 50 yrs. ago what we call commercial grade was the standard. Dick http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?src=/PhotoLoft/Asset18/2002/02/06/8944/8944343_0_9102.fpx,0,0,1,1,384,288,FFFFFF

[Woodydel 0]

As usual, the Ebay price is much higher than the store price... I looked at these toasters up close and I remember how they were made. Not like the current Sunbeam I have now which at the highest setting just barely browns my English muffin. Hell, toasters and tractors seem related to me..Tractor owners who own toasters...? Woody

[PatRarick 1]

Herb, you state that a B-1 cost $700 in 1961, about 10% of an average yearly salary, and that if someone spent about 10% of an average yearly salary today, they could probably buy a tractor that was just as good, or better. My findings show that the average yearly salary today, is $30,000 to $36,000. Where could you buy a new tractor today that will do what the B-1 is capable of, and do it for over forty years, for $3,000 to $3,600? I WANT ONE! Seriously, it is very hard to compare apples to apples when comparing old vs. new. As Woody said, 100,000 miles out of a car was a miracle. I would have to ask how much of the additional mileage of today's vehicles has to do with a better quality machine, or better quality of lubricants, filters, etc. Thirty years ago, many more people did there own routine maintenance on their cars. Many of those were no more capable of removing a drain plug, than doing brain surgery. They were not too particular about wiping off the oil filler cap area, and allowed dirt to enter the engine when they refilled the oil. They overlooked small things such as broken or missing air filter gaskets, etc. They did not blow off the spark plugs to remove any gravel or dirt before removing them, allowing more abrasives into the engine. Today, most of the maintenance is done in qualified repair shops, more often resulting in better care. In situations such as these, I could not say whether old is better than new, or vice versa. There are too many variables that are open to debate and personal opinion. When you talk about consumers being their own worst enemy, I couldn't agree more. Pat

[Dutch 4]

Pat, Admittedly, when I stated percentages I was generalizing. In 1960 my weekly salary was $47.50 ($2470 per year), and I was the sole breadwinner. Homes and cars were just about the only items financed. Credit Cards were relatively new and most people didn’t have one. A $700 garden tractor would have been an unaffordable luxury for me back then. The last Sovereigns had a MSRP starting at $6000, not beyond the purchasing (financing) power of many of today’s “household (multiple) incomes.” Certainly modern (better) lubricants attribute to a machine’s longevity. I also believe today’s designs, materials, gaskets, and seals are better. Tolerances are closer, and with robotic manufacturing, the mood of the worker or day of the week doesn’t impact the assembly process. One day my wife and I were watching one of those “This Old House” shows. They were trying to match an old horsehair plaster wall. My wife was aghast when I suggested gutting the place and using sheetrock. My wife claimed I didn't appreciate the “Colonial originality & quality”. “Originality” - She was silent when I asked if she would live in a house without electricity, indoor plumbing, or central heat / ac. “Quality” – Sure, many new homes have popping nails and cracking sheetrock after a few years, but that is not due to construction materials. In the “old days” a home was built in the best location, foundation trenches were dug by hand. Today, a home will be built on any land available (even in a swamp), foundation trenches are often over-dug and backfilled without compacting. When a foundation settles, something has to give. The only popping nails and cracks in my house is in an addition my wife had a contractor build because I “took too long.” She went for the lowest price, and got ½” sheetrock (5 nails per stud), seamed over doors and windows. I only wish today’s better building materials and tools were available 30 years ago when I built my house (just my opinion).

[PatRarick 1]

Couldn't agree more. I see the same here. My house was built in 1952. I don't think that there is a straight wall or square corner in the building, plastered walls, but it holds together tightly. My dad's house, in the same farmyard, was built in 1970. It has nice, straight sheetrock walls, square corners, etc. Sheet rock nails work out of the wall, basement walls crack and cave in (have had to trench around his house and redo the basement in 1994). That house was built to save money. When my grandfather built this house, he decided on quality. Pat