Fill tires with fuid or not?"My answer to this"

[Dutch 4]

Kent, I sure don't have the garden tractor experience you guys have, but I always believed the LESS weight on a wheel the better. I understand sometimes weighting a wheel is the only option, but a weight box or suitcase weights seem like a better choice if possible. I just don't like rotating loads which act like a heavy flywheel with stored energy. I don't run any extra weight at all. With my 270 lb. butt on the seat and reducing tire pressure, I can get any of my engines to really lug before the tires loose traction. Rather than placing a greater load on the machine, I'll take a smaller bite of whatever I'm doing.

[MikeES 469]

My 712 had CaCl (Calcium Chloride) in the rear wheels that eventually leaked. 1 - wet spots on shop floor. 2 - they don't leak much but is a nuisance (once the air pressure is out). 3 - tried plugs but they don't work with CaCl (just spits tmen out). 4 - they deflate down to the air pressure equalization (they don't go flat unless you have a very heavy tractor). Solution - went to wheel weights. Mike S.

[Woodydel 0]

In my opinion, weights on the wheels is far superior to hanging weight off the back of the tractor. I've used 75lb wheel weights for years. There is no impact to the bearings or any other part of the drive train that I can see since it all "unsprung" weight. Most heavy equipment operator use calcium chloride in the tires but I wouldn't use anything in my tires. At 8lb a gallon how many gallons can you get into the tire anyway? You need at least 10 gallons to equal just one of my wheel weights and you can take the weights off easily when you don't want the weight. Not so easy with antifreeze in the tire to get rid of the extra weight. Like Dutch says eat more then you won't need to worry...Woody

[Kent 436]

Dutch, Since my back yard lies on a fairly gentle hillside, sloping in two different directions, there is no easy way to mow it without going around a slope -- and I have to climb the slope to get out of it (luckily they're not that steep). Until I loaded my tires I had a continuing problem with the "uphill" tire spinning slightly when climbing the slope if the grass or soil was damp -- when most of the weight was transferred to the downhill side of the tractor. (That was with turf tires, with the ags the spinning was much less, but caused much more lawn damage if/when it happened.) Now, spinning has almost entirely disappeared -- the grass has to be too wet to mow in order to spin the tires.... Also, the old B-series Allis seats with armrests kind of limit how far you can shift the backside to put more weight on the uphill side.... I've ordered one of John Scheele's new weight box/counterweights to use with my Johnny Bucket. It'll be interesting to see how well it works. When you're digging with the bucket, you can spin even with filled lug tires. I used my ugly 125lb concrete counterweight and lugs when I was doing all the grading last spring. I understand the potential for damage, but am just trying to understand it better so I can try to minimize it... I don't want to load it up to the point I break something, but right now my limiter seems to be traction, not the engine. Kent http://www.simpletractors.com/images/bucket/dumping_depth.jpg

[Kent 436]

Woody, As best I remember, I could get about 6 gallons of winter formula windshield washer fluid in each of my rear tires -- it was hard to tell exactly since some leaked while filling. But, I used slightly more that 13 gallons for both. I think I added somewhere between 45-50 pounds per wheel -- at a cost of 99-cents a gallon. Much cheaper than buying wheel weights and no additional hassles when removing the wheels, other than handling the heavier wheel.... Right now, eating more isn't an option. I also have the problem that I'm already pushing the max weight the Air Force allows for my height -- I guess I'm just "vertically challenged!" Kent

[Sandy 0]

I had an old tractor here one time with calcium chloride in it with 23 X 12 X 9.5 tires on it and couldn't believe how much the tires weighed. The tire and wheel combo itself I believe is a shade under 25 lbs.. I got the bathroom scales out and my whole set-up was close to 115-125 lbs. per wheel with the calcium. It sure did make a difference on mowing those slopes and I wouldn't want to try them again without weight. I wouldn't recommend calcium chloride as it sure makes a mess of the steel wheels after it's eaten them up. Windshield washer fluid is the thing to use now. I think the wheels look so much better without having those external weights installed. Just don't run over any thorns or nails.

[Woodydel 0]

Windshield washing fluid is poisonous, flammable and corrosive. I would not use that. If you have a leak and that is practically inevitable you will be leaking fluid that cannot be made non-poisonous. The cost of corroded wheels I think offsets the cost of wheel weights. Most of the time I get my wheel weight with the snowblower and chains to boot so I never had to buy wheel weights separately. Even my Model 700 came with wheel weights. Calcium chloride I know likes to eat metal and quickly at that so. I really couldn't imagine having to change a tire filled with anything, what a mess...Methanol is used in paint stripper by the way. So goodbye paint...My 2 cents...Woody

[BradW 0]

I would only use anti-freeze, calcium chloride takes no time to destroy your rims and really makes you made in a short order of time. My '44 Case DC-4 had CaCL in them (the tires) when I bought it and I drove it home, parked it for a week and where it was sitting the rim was solid rust, not a good thing, it leaked it out, made it look ugly, and realized to myself, the money spent in wheel weights will be cheaper in the end then when you have to repair rims and tires and the such when they get destroyed from fluid. You yourself may think otherwise, but from personal experience, it is'nt the best thing in the world,good luck,-BradW

[Woodydel 0]

Anti freeze is really bad. Once it gets into the ground you'll be drinking it sooner or later. Unless you take it to an anti-freeze recycle center before you change your flat.Heh Heh Heh.. If you use washers and nuts to hold the wheel weight carriage bolts in place on your wheels before you install your weights, taking the wheel weights on and off is not harder that taking lug nuts off. Use lock washers to keep them from loosening on the wheels... Woody

[PatRarick 1]

I can understand differential problems, as I have seen a lot with standard agricultural tractors. The key with agricultural tractors, is making sure that the fluid level is above the top of the rims. On tubeless tires, there are two reasons for this. They use Calcium Chloride. If the rim is exposed to air, even inside the tire, it will rust quickly. As long as the metal remains submerged, corrosion isn't a problem. The other reason for keeping the tires filled, is to keep the "fluid motion" of the wheel to a minimum. I have driven tractors that were only half full. When you stop the machine, it rocks back and forth as the fluid sloshes inside. On rough ground, such as that which is moldboard plowed, the fluid sloshes so much that it "rocks" the gears against each other while moving, causing a lot of stress on the gear teeth and bearings. I keep the tires on my B's filled to above the rim for these reasons. I can easily see where not enough fluid would cause problems with the differential on these little tractors. I also feel that tubeless tires are much better when using fluid. If a small leak develops, it doesn't come out at the puncture. It travels around inside the tire and comes out the valve stem. It causes a lot of corrosion. Pat

[Kent 436]

Woody, I filled my turf tires with Marine/RV antifreeze, which is non-toxic, non-corrosive, and safe on plastic and rubber -- at $1.99 a gallon. I filled my lugs with windshield washer antifreeze, which is also supposed to non-corrosive and safe on plastic and rubber, at $0.99 a gallon. I wouldn't use radiator antifreeze -- that's definitely very poisonous, but... if I'd had wheel weights, I'd have used them. But, I can't see over $1 a pound for new ones -- guess I'm just cheap. As far as the environment -- I wonder how many gallons of this WW stuff get squirted into the environment every day? I've gone through more than six gallons this winter myself.... Speaking of "cheap" and wheel weights, has anyone used these? Kent [A href='http://www.innernet.net/mclog24/'][img src='http://www.innernet.net/mclog24/assets/images/wheelwaits.jpg'][/a]

[SmilinSam 4,240]

Kent, Like Dutch mentoined, the "Flyweight effect", is the thing to probably consider. IN my opinion potential damage would be more related to how one drives the tractor with the weight on it than to how much weight is on it. Both tractors I mentioned had rounded out keyways on either the axle tube or the axle shaft. One also had broken gears in the differential itself. I think this would be attributed to sudden change in directions. In a gear drive you pretty muc have to stop to change directions while on a hydro you can make the change almost instantly if you are "rammy". Both these tractors were hydros. The weight just magnifies the stress to the system in a sudden change of motion. Drive respectfully to the tractor and one shouldn't really have a problem -I would think. Sam

[automan 0]

Speaking of using rear counterweights, what would you say would be a reasonable limit on weight for a 314H? travis

[Kent 436]

Travis, I've used a concrete counterweight that weighs approximately 125lbs. The operators manuals for the L-12 loaders say to put 100 to 300 lbs in the weight box... Kent

[MPH 12]

Wow, that took awhile to read through. I like the looks of wheel wts so I run two sets on each tractor. Guess I got lucky when I bought the B112 truckload as I got 3 sets with it. The 725 had one set and the Landlord has 1. Not sure about the flywheel effect but it seem to me having the wt on the axle should be less stress on the tractor in general than having a whole lot hanging out back..MPH

[Dutch 4]

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[SmilinSam 4,240]

I have never used a Garden Tractor with fluid in the tires , but I have been the recipient of parts tractors that have been run with fluid and weights. Two out of the three of them had differential problems. By the way Jack, I ordered you up a dash decal and have the rest of your parts here. The decal will be done in about two weeks- SmilinSam

[MPH 12]

Well Jack I feel real bright this morning, first ?, i'd say the fluid leaks out, 2nd ?, wet spots..3rd ? , I'd try puting hole on top and try a tire plug kit. 4th?, I would think slower...MPH

[Dutch 4]

You have a rotating super soaker water gun. Sounds like fun in freezing snow. Jack up machine, then – Tubeless: Rotate hole above water line and use regular plug. Tube-type: Remove fluid (most) and patch as normal. It deflates quicker. Fluid doesn’t compress so the volume is far less than air. Two suggestions: Don’t lend equipment & eat well and gain your own weight so you don’t have to add to tractor.

[Kent 436]

Jack, I haven't experienced any leaks with mine, but I'd have to think it would be easier to deal with on a tire mounted tubeless than one that has a tube in it... On a tubeless one, you'd think the "plugs" that are inserted with a gun and have a large soft head on them would work, as opposed to the "coated, cord-type" ones that are put in with a large "needle"... I never liked those anyway, since I've seen them come out. Sam, Picking up on your comment about fluid/weights perhaps causing differential problems -- what type problems did you find? I'm running WW fluid in mine, but have no weights, yet I notice you have weights on your HB-116... Do you think one is harder on the tractor than the other? Just curious....

[StinKy 0]

I hadnt read this thread when I posted my little dilema on the hub/gear giving out on my Landlord, but I have to confess Iam guilty as charged for loading tires (w-w fluid) and wheel weights (home made, 95 lbs per wheel) and chains. My trailer holds the equal of a short box pickup loaded even to the rail tops with firewood. As far as my axle tube goes it was broken when I got the tractor and I made a new one out of AISI 4140 steel drawn back to R-C 28-30. I dulled a couple of woodruff key cutters getting my keyseats installed in the tube in spite of generous application of coolant. I also installed new bushings made of Aluma-Bronze inside the axle which is capable of greater surface loading with long wearing characteristics. This tube is extremly tuff but not brittle. I'd be willing to bet the original wasnt as good. This tube has been in service for 8 years and has no slop in the keyways. Backlash in the gears is minimal, actually quite good for a tractor 30 yrs. old. My belief is that I'd rather put the weight on the wheels than on the frame or axle. I probably should go to the RV stuff for the liquid loading in the tires. Dick

[Woodydel 0]

I believe you are right Sam that too much weight could have those consequences. 150-200 LB seems about right if you consider the distance from what you are trying to counterbalance. Multiply 5 feet times the weight and you have quite a bit of leveraged weight which should more than compensate for whatever load the tractor's front end can carry safely. The distance from the load to the front axle centerpoint can't be more than 30". Another point which I will post later is on my Cub Cadets I never have to use weight to help lift a heavy attachment. It is all done with springs. Some of the setups especially for the very heavy snow blowers will surprise you. That's for later though..Woody

[dlcentral 1]

I'm stocking up on axle tubes,bet there'll be a run on em,,lol,,An old stressed out tube isn't gonna take extra weights and digging a bucket of dirt to well,,

[SmilinSam 4,240]

I prefer no fluid at all. Any liquid mixed with air will eventually cause corrosion. You don't realize the damage until you break the tire down or it rusts from the inside-out. I prefer traction tires, wheel weights, hanging weight and tire chains when necessary. I use weight accordingly to the job at hand. Some slip in drive tires is much easier on the drive-train components then 100% traction.

[MPH 12]

Just for info sake, good stuff or bad I think Cal colide wt is about 12 lbs/ gal. MPH