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steve-wis

Loader subframe question

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steve-wis

Hello!

Next summers project (or maybe the summer after) will be to build my own loader for a 3212V simplicity. Pretty much have the loader itself pictured as far as how I want to build it, but haven't thought about the subframe yet. Does anyone have a loader on a similar tractor, and if so would you have a few pics of the subframe? Needing to know how heavy and what shape of material, where and how it is attached, etc. If anyone can help out, I would appreciate it!

Steve

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Talntedmrgreen

Yes...thats the oem subframe for variable and hydro fdts. Food for thought! I like it cuz I could always still mow without taking anything off. A Johnson loader I had on a Jacobsen denied a user from anything other that loader work, and the design was no more complex that what you see above...just not as well thought out.

Im pretty sure these subframes are 2x2 angle.

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huffy

Steve:

Somewhere on here there are threads by guys that made their own replicas of the crossmember that goes through the holes in the frame-to-bgb connector plates (the big roundbar thingy in the middle of the pic with the frame laid out on the plywood, where you can see Josh's feet). There are also threads with pics showing the rest of the frame, with measurements (by Kent, I think, and which may be for a B10 frame, which would be shorter, but would get you fairly close and you'd just have to adjust some of the measurements).

I used to know right where to find them, but forgot. Try playing around in Tech Tips, the Do It Yourself page, and the Operation page. I know the latter has a copy of the loader manual, showing a schematic of the frame.

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rokon2813

The most important thing is bridging front to rear of the tractor.

Home built loaders without bridging tend to break the gearbox.

Years ago Kirk, thedaddycat did a write-up on building a second set of sideplates that strengthened the center of the tractor. They were quite involved.

His plates are still around. I think they would be transmission "specific", and I don't remember what tractor they were built on, without looking it up I think a variable.

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1978Simplicity7016H

So, should I be worried about by loader tractors BGB? It's a 7016. Really the hardest job I encounter with it is moving dirt. I don't lift engines or anything REALLY heavy. On second thought, another job I do with it is lift wet snow. I don't use it all that often, right now it is my rototilling tractor.

https://goo.gl/photos/esAqeWNk1MHjLqv26

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rokon2813
quote:Originally posted by 1978Simplicity7016H

So, should I be worried about by loader tractors BGB? It's a 7016. Really the hardest job I encounter with it is moving dirt. I don't lift engines or anything REALLY heavy. On second thought, another job I do with it is lift wet snow. I don't use it all that often, right now it is my rototilling tractor. https://goo.gl/photos/esAqeWNk1MHjLqv26


id="quote">
id="quote">Only if the sub frame does not tie the front to the back. Without some support, the only thing holding these tractors together in the middle is 4 bolts through steel into cast iron.

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huffy

Here's the thread by Kent that I mentioned. His subframe was for the LL 2010/2012's and B10/12's, so it would be a few inches shorter than what you'd need to build for your tractor. But I think it will still be quite useful to you:

http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38075

I know there is a write up somewhere on how to make the crossmember, but danged if I can find it right now.

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1978Simplicity7016H

Well, I think I may try to take the loader off. I don't use it often like I said, and it is one one of my nicer tractors. 16HP Briggs is in PERFECT condition and runs great! I always wanted to put a snowblower on it.

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BLT

The Achilles heel, if any, of the Sovereign series are the four 7/16 fasteners that connect the front and back halves of the tractor. The four bolts do loosen up from time to time. The sub frame is designed take a way any additional stress( bending motion) to that joint. You can build a loader without the sub frame and I can almost guarantee you'll have a problem. It's like having grenade in your hand, the handle went pling now and when is it going to go boom.

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Koabd1978
quote:Originally posted by 1978Simplicity7016H

Well, I think I may try to take the loader off. I don't use it often like I said, and it is one one of my nicer tractors. 16HP Briggs is in PERFECT condition and runs great! I always wanted to put a snowblower on it.


id="quote">
id="quote">I'll trade you a snowblower for the loader lol

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Talntedmrgreen

The tractors I have had with failure at their center, werent actually broken BGBs...they had cracked frames at the welds between the frame and plate that bolts to the BGB.

I have also had several machines with loose BGB bolts...some completely MIA.

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steve-wis

Thanks to all for the information. Since I don't even have the tractor here yet, I have a lot of time to plan what to do. I will be making sure of very adequate support on the sub frame. This is going to be my "easing into retirement" project, and I have almost 5 years to go yet, God willing, until actual retiring, so this will be a slow project. I have always wanted to build one, so should be fun. When I do get started, I will be sure to keep an updated topic going.

Thanks again!

Steve

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steve-wis

Dennis, I have sent you an email.

Does anyone have the information on the required pump size and cyl. sizes? I have done a bit of research and it seems like a 4-6 gallon per minute pump is about right, but I am not real sure. Also most are using a 2 inch cylinder for both main lift and bucket tilt. If anyone can clarify any of this I would appreciate it. I am going to start looking for sources for hydraulics. Any advice on this is appreciated as well.

Steve

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GrincheyOne

Earlier production models (circa '64) of the Allis, and Simplicity frames, had the "bgb bulkhead" welded flush with the end of the frame. This placed all the stress just forward of the weld. This is where you can find cracks, even on machines w/o a FEL! subsequent manufacturing changes to move the "bulkhead" at least 1/2" forward, and lenthening the frame to preserve the drive shaft length, provided better stress tolerance in the weld area, correcting the problem.

YES the 7/16" grade 8 hex bolts can be found loose, as the machines age and go through cycles of strain, and temperature variances. When breaking down (literally) my '68 2110 LL for referb, I found at least 2 of 4 bolts loose. I had originally planned to stop at this point, But in the process of re-torquing these 1 sheared one. And to split the frame to extract the remains. It has been recommended that to not damage the treading in any casting, it would be WISE to use only a grade 5 hardware, and in any event use new hardware here, that is properly torqued in the ideal conditions (everything at a nominal 70*). All hardware torque charts take this into consideration.

It is also important to assure the side plate hardware, into the BGB and transmission is properly installed to specification. All mating surfaces should be absolutely clean.

Step back 4 years, and here is the "chatter",and detail on what I experienced...Sorry some of the photos are out of sync to the narrative (camera issues).

http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=120645&whichpage=1

Good luck on your FEL build!dOd

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