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B112_son

B210 Briggs engine help

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B112_son

I have B210 with original Briggs I got a while back. Been tinkering a little here and there as time permits to get running. The PO has been into the engine and couldn't get it start when he was finished. I eliminated the points as I was not getting spark and went with a mega fire. I have spark now but all I can get is some back fire through the carb. I'm guessing maybe a timing issue. Anybody else have any thoughts and what to check. I have little experience with engines.

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theniteowl

Yes, you would need to remove the engine to look at the flywheel key but it is not a hard thing to do.

You have a couple of electrical connections, the fuel line, two bolts from to the drive shaft and four bolts holding the engine to the frame.

The one annoying thing is you may have to drain the oil in order to remove the pipe extension that protrudes through the side of the frame in order to pull the engine out.

Do yourself a favor and remove the front end of the tractor. It makes getting the engine in and out a lot easier and only takes a few bolts to remove.

You have to take off the rear drive pulley and screen then take off the engine shroud. You may actually be able to see the flywheel key once you remove the rear pulley and screen.

I have had intermittent problems with my HB-212 starting. Generally she runs good but on occasion would give me a lot of trouble starting and having me pulling my hair out. After trying lots of things she would eventually start working again like there had been no problem. I decided to replace the points with a mega fire module and she was working well until recently.

I had spark but she did not want to fire. I would get puffs of pressure coming back through the carb though I would not call it a true backfire as it was more compression than combustion.

I pulled and cleaned out the carb real well and she is running again though I am not certain if it was the carb cleaning that did it or if it was something else.

I have read that to use the electronic ignition modules you need to have the flywheel magnets polarity reversed. I do not know if that applies to this engine or if it is outdated info that no longer applies. I have also read that some people have intermittent problems with electronic ignition.

If you pull the engine then make sure you clean and set the gap for the armature properly so that you know it is done and dont have to go in and do it again later. Also verify the wire coming off the armature is not worn and shorting anywhere coming out of the engine.

If you happen to have any oil leaking into the points cover from where the points plunger comes through this would be a good time to remove the plunger so you can plug the hole and stop any leaking.

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720nut

While you've got it out check valve clearances, easier to do on the bench than on your knees, myself I'ld also grind valves and seats and reset clearances but I have a grinder so no problem for me.

If you were closer I'ld offer to grind them for ya but Jasper is a ways off

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RayS

With the megafire II and Nova II. You do not need to repolarized the flywheel. They are made to replace points and condenser. The electronic Magnetron armature has to have the flywheel repolarized.

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B112_son

Thanks for the replies.

Niteowl, luckily the front of the tractor is off as I've had the engine out once but have no way to bench test. My "backfire" maybe more like you describe. There is no sound or anything just a compression puff coming through the carb. I just had the carb all apart, cleaned and put back on to try the mega fire. Maybe I'll start there again before I pull the engine.

720nut, yea I'm down here way south. Not a lot of AC simplicity stuff and no one who wants to work on anything this old. This started out as a machine I was going to part out but I'm finding swapping attachments between 1 machine stinks. Especially when you want to use a tiller and blade at the same time. So now I'm trying to get it going since I have it, but on a budget. Plan on making it my dedicated tilling machine.

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briggsetc

I would check the valve timing before you pull the engine.

Here is the tried and true "rock" method to check the valve timing.....

An easy way to check the cam timing without tearing the engine down is to remove the cylinder head and roll the piston to Top Dead Center. The valves should either be both closed or both "rocking". When the cam timing is correct one valve is just closing and the other is just starting to open, "rocking", on the "overlap" stroke at TDC. Turning the crankshaft 360 degrees to the other TDC will take you to the compression or "power" stroke when both valves are closed and the engine fires.

There is no close, it is right on or off at least 1 tooth on the camshaft gear if the valve settings are not way out of specs. If it is off then you have to pull the engine down to adjust the camshaft in relation to the crankshaft. You usually need to have both valves closed when pulling and resetting the camshaft.

Works on any single cylinder 4 cycle engine ever made.

Gary

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B112_son

Thanks for the help. I will check that out as well. Hopefully I can get to it this weekend. I have a list of spring projects piling up and 2 tractors would make like so much easier.

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BLT

Also on cast iron engines, the spark is fired every other stroke but the electronic trigger don't know that and causing the engine to back fire on start up. Note, it doesn't consistently, but does happen on engines here and there. So I fire the trigger thru the points and it eliminates the back firing. Note Mega Fire and Nova are virtually the same module. Mega Fire has an extra ground wire.

MegaFireBriggsc.jpg

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B112_son

Thanks BLT. I'll look at that as well. I noticed when I was making sure the engine had spark after install the mega fire it seemed to spark more frequently than my engines still running points. The only other thing is I removed the points because the plunger wasn't working. I can put them back in but not sure if that has any affect on the drawing you shared.

Another question I had was about the polarity. The instructions just say how to hook for positive or negative. I have wired for positive, but even after switched the 2 wires it won't run, also doesn't give the backfire.

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MrSteele

"720nut, yea I'm down here way south. Not a lot of AC simplicity stuff and no one who wants to work on anything this old. "

Try going really south. Down here in Alabama, Simplicitys are harder to find than Hildegard supporters!

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MrSteele

"720nut, yea I'm down here way south. Not a lot of AC simplicity stuff and no one who wants to work on anything this old. "

Try going really south. Down here in Alabama, Simplicitys are harder to find than Hildegard supporters!

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B112_son

I finally have time to dig into this engine. Sorry I know it's been a while. A couple things I have learned.

I pulled the engine and checked the flywheel key and it is in tact. Couldn't figure that was the problem.

I pulled the head off. Learned the PO really did rebuild the engine, new valves and a .030 piston. Cylinder walls look. ( makes at least feel this isn't a waste of time.)

I checked the valve timing and everything appears to be correct. When the piston is top dead center the the valves are both closed. Then they open an close correctly and are rocking the next time the piston is top dead center.

The coil wires appear to in good shape and not grounding.

I had to do the mega fire for spark because the points plunger was not operating.

Now I am totally lost. Does anyone have any ideas where to go from here. I don't know what else to check. I was thinking of rewiring everything and cleaning the carb again.

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BLT

Forget my dwg and wire it up per the instructions. Don't forget that it is polarity sensitive and you might have to reverse wires to get a spark.

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B112_son

Thanks BLT. Before I pulled the engine I reversed the wires and the spark went away, so I believe it connected properly.

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B112_son

Thanks. I've got another engine that was smoking badly but running. I think I'm going to take all of the electrical components from that engine and put them on this engine. Hopefully that will cure my problem.

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B112_son

Well now I have another problem. I was working on putting the engin back together and the arm that is mounted to the block for the throttle linkage came loose. When looking at it the "screw" that goes into the block is pushed in. I have tried a screwdriver and a magnet but I cannot get it to back out. Is there a way to get it out?

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B112_son

Well I took the oil pan off and found the governor gear in there. The throttle linkage was loose from the governor shaft. I got evrything put back and the oil pan back in and head back on. Time to start the re wire. But with the throttle linkage loose could that have caused any of my problems with not starting and back firing ?

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