Sundstrand tranny oil filters

[Dutch 4]

Oil filters..... a topic that has the potential of starting a real nasty controversy. Hydraulic filters are rated by filtering ability (measured in microns). What is the machine manufacturer's spec? An oil filter that will protect an engine may pass particles that will damage a hydraulic system. Some filters have by-pass or check valves, others do not. Sometimes a valve is needed, other times they may be detrimental. Internal filter construction varies greatly.

[djarvis949 0]

I was quoted $16.46 for short AC filter, used NAPA 1335 @ about 3 bucks instead, slightly longer than the short oem filter but shorter than a NAPA 1068 which I believe crossed to the long AC filter. Clears tire chains OK, but rear attachment drive belt will hit. Works fine for me. Don

[MPH 12]

I've put over 1 million miles on fram PH8 oil filters, but like Dutch pointed out, they may not meet specs for hydro's. When my son called me after getting his first car wondering if he needed to change the filter everytime he changed oil I replied, yea, I do, there cheap. He decided since my rigs all have over 280,000 miles on 'em that was good enough for him. Clean oil/filter, clean air filter, and make sure there are no cob webs built up...MPH

[Tuffy 1]

My 620 had an oil filter on the tranny and it was foaming on me. I would not risk using an autofilter on those hydraulic systems - too great a risk for those sensitive systems. A $12 filter is a lot cheaper than a $400. hydro. Steve

[JeffG 0]

Right on, Steve ... cheap insurance! I also change the hydro fluid and filter more frequently than the recommended 200 hours. Jeff

[BillC 0]

Assuming a Simplicity "hydro" transmission filter cost $14 and a Fram "oil" filter costs $4 and the recommended filter change per the owners manual is every 400 hours, then here is the math. $14-$4=$10 costs savings $10/400hrs=$0.025 per hour In my opinion, 2.5 cents per hour is not worth the risk. In fact, I do not use aftermarket oil filters on my Kohler OHC engine, only Kohler for the same reason. By the way both the Operator's Manual and Large Frame Garden Tractor Repair and Service Manual states the hydro filter is 25 micron.

[johnmonkey 4]

My 1984 Toyota Truck w 180,000 miles on will take a larger filter than the toyota original. A friend of mine told me that the larger filter may starve the oil supply system because it takes longer to fill the larger filter. Just a thought. John H

[Woodydel 0]

Johnmonkey, Once the filter is filled the amount of oil passing through will be the same...Woody

[SmilinSam 4,242]

Micron rating is OK with the ones I have been buying, its the anti-drain back feature incorporated into most filters off the shelf that I was originally worried about 10 years ago. My Wheel Horse has well over 1000 hours and 10 years of use using the better grade automotive filters changed at every 100 hours or so. And I have worked that tractor HARD. Thats why I just can't seem to get overly concerned about it. Most of you only run 1 tractor that you have to do maintinance on. When maintinance day comes here I have to buy 4-5 of these filters, engine oil for 5-10 tractors, grease, and so on. It can add up $$$ in a real hurry. I keep threatening to thin the collection out but it keeps going the other direction though.............

[PatRarick 1]

In reality, if you are buying a good grade of oil filter, you may just be buying the same filter as you purchase from a dealer. There are very few companies that manufacture their own filters. Most choose a reputable manufacturer and have their own name painted on the can. A PH16 is what my aftermarket books call for on almost all hydros. Pat

[powermax_paul 1]

Filtration is and always will be a hot topic of discussion for both the typical consumer and for the hydraulics engineer. I worked for ten years as a project engineer for a hydraulic control systems manufacturer and we had countless discussions on this subject. I use the Fram Extragard filters on my Powermax tractors (and feel quite comforable in doing so). The latest recommendation of Sauer/Sunstrand for the Series 15 hydrotatic unit (the one used on the Powermax tractors)is a 20 micron nominal filter. Fram rates their filters based on the "SAE Single Pass Efficiency" test at 96.2% efficient at removing particles 20 micron or larger in size. This is commonly referred to as a 20 micron "Nominal" rating. Fluid power companies use a more thorough rating system called the Beta Ratio in a multipass test. Below is a link to Parker's explanation of that test. All in all, the Micron rating system we are familiar with is the SAE single pass system. Most spin-on filters sold at implement dealers and auto stores are rated under this system. You would need to purchase filters at a fluid power distributor to get one rated using the Beta(10) standard. Paul Kjorlie,PE [A href='http://www.parker.com/parkersql/default.asp?type=2&id=25']http://www.parker.com/parkersql/default.asp?type=2&id=25[/a]

[SmilinSam 4,242]

Seeing as discussions are in a lull, heres one to mull over. As we all know the filters you get from the dealers are anywhere from $10 - $15 each for these Sundstrand Hydro transmission. I have a Wneel Horse with a Sundstrand and I asked the dealer (30+ years in the business and a Sundstrand service man)a long time ago about using filters off the shelf for cars on it. He said it would work fine with a Fram ph16 or equivalent. Been using them for 10 years + now with no problems at all. Been using them on the Simplicity/Ac versions for about 4 years now with no problems. Aside from being a bit long for the newer transmissions with the side mount filter( I run them anyhow on tractors I don't use chains on) they seem to do fine. Time tested, anyone see any problems with the practice themselves?? Acceptable ? or am I just lucky ? SmilinSam

[Woodydel 0]

Paul and Sam, That is what I mean about stating facts about a decision to use other filters. Are there any other differences say in the filtering medium? Is there anything chemically incompatible with the standard oil filters? etc...Is there any reason not to stock up on the Prince filters?..They're rated to 10 microns and cost $5.70 each......There's another angle to this question. Do we always have to maximize the savings? How many companies will go out of business because their margins are too close? If Simplicity uses high margins in parts to stay in business, what happens to guys like us who need their parts or even a new tractor? What about dealer profits and their ability to stay in business..When you go to Walmart for that cheap filter are you going to ask the clerk in the auto section some technical questions? Do we buy Korean or Japanese products instead? Woody

[Floydster 0]

Been using Fram PH16 filters on my AC 620's hydro's for 20+ years and have had no problems,Lucky? Change the fuild every 100 hrs. Floydster

[JamesC 0]

THe Fram PH 16 and Baldwin B163 are both listed in my product guides for my 9020. Can anyone tell me what the exact specs. are on the OEM 171439 filter is or who makes it for Simplicity (sundstrand)? Baldwin lists this filter as a "Microlite Full-flowLube or Transmission Spin-on.

[Kent 436]

Woody, You better be careful predicting nightime weather -- remember that MPH lives in the land of the midnight sun... ;<) Of course now he may only be enjoying four hours or so of daylight... We're not yet 60 days past the Winter Solstice though the days are getting noticeably longer around here!

[MPH 12]

Kent, we have gained about 5 or 6 hours from crack of dawn til dark. Spooky part is the mid-night sun will upon me before I get any winter projects done. So far all I got this winter is cleaning up and painting my grader blade that I got with the Landlord, had that done before Christmas and still haven't tried it out. Gotta get my 725 overhauled for tilling and the grass is turning green already, inside my new shop....MPH

[Woodydel 0]

Kent, You're right I have to watch out but then again I might be considered a "CUB" reporter. Heh heh heh..Woody

[Woodydel 0]

JamesC, Here are specs for the "OEM" filter. 25 microns, 8 PSI bypass, 3 gallons/min flow...They, Simplicity, use Baldwin B163 filters. When you buy an OEM filter is it relabled? Hmmm. You can probably find Baldwin's number on the OEM filter. Baldwin says a better filter is the BT420 with 13 micron filtration and glass reinforced media. Both use cellulose media for the bulk of filtration and the glass reinforcement allows for finer filtration. Drawback is that BT420 is 1/2" longer. The B163 will filter out 11.4 grams of 22 micron material before clogging and the BT420 12.5 grams...Both are full flow type filters with bypass..You can buy the B163 for $5.63 or go for the BT420 at $8.59 both discounted...Reporting for SimpleTractors, Now for tonights weather: Dark.. Don't forget my link to Prince filters at 10 microns up above (What another commercial!)..Woody UPDATE! The Prince filter has too high a bypass pressure which is 15 lbs. So it looks to me like it should not be used...Woody

[Woodydel 0]

I agree with Sam that the cost of the filters is too high. As an example look at the linked page. The cost of the replacements is $5.70 ea. This is a price for genuine hydraulic oil filters not automotive oil filters. In my experiences what looks simple is not necessarily a guarantee that seat of the pants substitutes are acceptable. Engineers as I think I have stated before are smarter than I am in the fields they work in. Second guessing filter exchanges without facts could be costly. Sometimes we are fooled into thinking our methods are sound when in actuality we are just lucky to not get burned. On that linked page notice you can buy the housing and filter for less than the filter being replace from Simplicity. A simple remote adaptor will allow the use of the Prince filter. I use remote filter on trucks and hot rods and they come with the hoses necessary for installation. Just my two cents worth....Woody (not a hydraulics expert by any means) UPDATE! The FA10 has too high a bypass pressure which is 15 lbs and Simplicity specs call for 8 lbs...Woody [A href='http://www.hitstar.com.hk/hydraulic_pumps_&_oil_filters.htm']http://www.hitstar.com.hk/hydraulic_pumps_&_oil_filters.htm[/a]

[Woodydel 0]

I contacted this Sundstrand hydrostatic remanufacturer and Mike Lambert would not say which manufacturers filter to use but emphasized the requirement of 10 micron filtration. This requirement comes indirectly from Sundstrand. I've emailed several filter manufacturers and am waiting for replies. That Prince filter meets that requirement and doesn't cost very much.. The confusion factor has escalated for me because I had contacted Baldwin's tech support and that individual reported that the B163 filter was for lube only and yet the catalog listing is for lube and transmission applications. If you can't get a straight and accurate answer from the filter manufacturer what can you trust?...Still looking..Woody[A href='http://www.flinthydrostatics.com/contact/default.asp']http://www.flinthydrostatics.com/contact/default.asp[/a]

[MPH 12]

Woody, your local wally-mart x pert, Ya know, the drip under pressure...MPH