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JoggerFogger

Sovereign 7016H Breaking Belts in 2-4 hours.

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JoggerFogger

I need some help. It's costing me $20 almost every time I mow my grass.

Sovereign 7016H (1690342)

48" deck (1690502)

1. The belt I got with the mower was too long and kept falling off. It was a 71". I first got a 69" and couldn't even get it on. 70" seemed to fit perfect. Broke it.

2. One of the spindle bearings on the deck wasn't perfect, so I replaced all of them. I thought this was my problem, but my belt broke again. It did make the deck much quieter. It was so quiet that I didn't think it was turning. I had to get off and check.

I really paid attention this last time, took it easy on the speed of the grass, kept stopping and feeling the belt for heat. With the larger belts, the belt would vibrate a lot. With the 70" belt, it was nice and static.

Maybe I'm not buying the right belt? I keep buying the NAPA garden tractor belts, rated to 17hp. Napa 4L700W.

Maybe this deck isn't supposed to be used with this tractor? It mows, but according to Jack's, this deck was sold with the 914H. My only thought here is that where the PTO to Deck belt lines up with the Deck center spindle pulley, it's not perfectly straight.

Another strange thing that happens is that the belts rotate in the pulleys. They'll be going sideways in the pulleys. That happened with the 71" belts that would vibrate too much and fall off, or rotate in the pulleys.

I took a bunch of pictures to see if you guys could see anything that might be the culprit. The only belt I have that's in one piece is this old 71" guy that lasts about 10 seconds before it falls off. Some of the big cuts in the side are from it falling off and getting caught in the PTO drive pulley.

>

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Bill725

If you are trying to use a aftermarket belt from the PTO to mower, then go to your local Simplicity Dealer and purchase a OEM belt. I have NEVER had any luck using an aftermarket belt that twists and turns other than Simplicity belts.

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JoggerFogger

I can't seem to figure out how to embed pictures, so I'm just going to provide links. Maybe my images are too big.

https://goo.gl/photos/pM8Lf1hr9LdXYvxa8

https://goo.gl/photos/gBTvHTpd2TK3JkCR9

https://goo.gl/photos/TEgubBmb6y3xKkC46

https://goo.gl/photos/TZs2mMppU5iBB6LN6

https://goo.gl/photos/4qRWrAaEY14712wx6

https://goo.gl/photos/wKPtiuTneXuDY9X37

https://goo.gl/photos/Sieog87LmSHH4tzk6

https://goo.gl/photos/o9N8iiEMLohDsCsH9

In this one you can see all the green dust from the belt casing... not sure why this is going on. Another possibility?

https://goo.gl/photos/Np7d3T2ZQ6wYeb1w8

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Bill725

FYI, the PTO pulley has two different size belt grooves. The inner is smaller/thinner than the outer which is bigger/wider. The mower belt goes on the inner groove. The tiller uses the outer groove. Check the bearings on the PTO pulleys and try an OEM Simplicity belt.

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JoggerFogger

I've called the local (45 min away) Simplicity dealer before, and they're not really into the old stuff. I called them anyway just now and told them I needed a 1/2" x 70" Simplicity Belt. He had no clue and told me he needs the part number. I don't know the part number because the part number online (Jack's) describes a 80" belt PTO to Deck for a different deck. I knew the kid there didn't know what he was talking about when he insisted that he'd need the model number on the engine, not the one I gave him off the frame: 1690342.

How do I just find a 1/2"x70" Simplicity belt and buy it online?

Both of the idle pulleys feel fine. I replaced the "back of the belt" idler recently, and the "V-side idler feels fine. I'll take it off and put a new bearing(s) in it anyway.

Were you guys able to see my pictures? Does anything look terribly wrong? I'll take more pictures of anything. I'll shoot some video of it running (once I get a new belt).

I absolutely despise pushing my push-mower around, but my grass is getting long, and I'm going to have to wait for a belt.

Thanks for your help gentlemen!

-Kevin

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Ronald Hribar

Deck should be almost level. 1/2 inch higher in front

Deck has to ride on rollers

Inside the hood some tractors have a list of correct belt

Only use Simplicity and they are not as good as they used to be

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MikeES

Looking at the picture from the rear, Your idler pulley is misaligned (the one that runs on the back side of the belt). Maybe too many washers on the right side of the pulley.

Any time you are getting a belt to roll over you have a misalignment.

With that alignment you will wreck a Simplicity belt in minutes also.

I use Fleet Farm belts on everything with no problems. I get 10+ years from them.

Deck is not an issue 7016 and 914 use the exact same deck.

The picture of the deck pulley and the belt alignment looks just like all of mine with the deck raised.

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BLT

You don't have a pulley guard on your you take up pulleys (idler arm), do you? And lastly how is spring tension on idler arm? The belt looks like loose fiddlers string, jumping around.

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wwbragg

Belt alignment is crucial. I have a Swisher 60" trail mower with a Briggs 13 hp engine. It would shred the belt in mere minutes. After much studying, measuring and redesigning, I re drilled some holes and lifted the motor frame (and therefor the drive pulley) to level out the belt. Now it will cut down small trees using a NAPA Kevlar belt.

Looks like the deck is an inch or more too high in the front. Try re-leveling the desk as described previously. Use a carpenter's level between the idler and main pulley to measure the variance.

What about the mule drive? Is it mounted correctly?

PS: Your photo links work fine, but try http://www.picresize.com/ to easily re-size photos.

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JoggerFogger

Thanks so much for looking at my pictures.

I did put on the shagged 71" (too big) belt to take pics, and in some of the pics the idler pulley(s) are out of position without a belt on and tension. The deck was in the mowing position, but I'm going to take it out of the shed and put it on flat ground to do some alignment/leveling work.

I'm going to buy the same 70" kevlar belt and put it on just for pictures and getting this thing set up right.

1. I thought I leveled the deck when I first got the machine, but I'm going to do it again. I found instructions in the manual online for this deck and it said to position the front of the blades 1/8-1/4" higher than the back with the rollers all the way down and the deck in the highest position. (I hope that's right by memory).

2. How should the idlers be aligned?

- should the idler split the angle difference?

- should the idler aim straight at the feeding pulley?

- or should it line up more with the downstream pulley?

Now that I'm thinking about it, I did lose the idler bolt somehow when I first got it and I replaced it with one I had. I had to use several washers to get it to where I thought it should be.... Usually when something goes wrong, it's because I messed with it....

When we're talking about "pulley alignment", there seems to be two dimensions. And I don't know what to call them. One is a parallel difference, and the other is angular.

The other difficulty I find with this system is that the pulleys aren't aligned at all to begin with. The belt is used as a substitute for another 90* bevel drive that would put the pulleys at least in the same plane.

I really appreciate all the help. I hope I'm not confusing the issue by overthinking it. (or underthinking it).

I have a feeling what I need to do is throw a new belt on, and hand-feed it around to see what happens. Then make adjustments from there.

Expect more pictures, and probably some video.

Cheers!

-Kevin

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JoggerFogger
quote:Originally posted by Bill725

Go to the Simplicity Mfg website and enter the model no. of your deck 1690502 and the PTO belt is P/N 2108508.


id="quote">
id="quote">I don't get it. That part number is for a 1/2 x 78" belt. Either I'm massively screwed up on how I'm routing this belt, or that's the wrong belt.I'm also wondering if maybe I need a 68" belt. If the belt is shorter, the idler assembly will swing up further and make the alignment with the deck pulley closer to the same plane. I thought I bought a 69", and I couldn't even get it on the pulleys.I swear I'm mechanically inclined. And I've been using Simplicity tractors since I was 10. (34 years). I can't believe I've broken 5-6 belts trying to figure out this problem.-Kevin

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CVSB10JCS

a 7016 is the same as ac 700 series and the pto belt is 1/2 x 71.6 #163011. I use a 1/2 x 70 inch belt. make sure the swinging hanger hickie doesn't have any slop, I needed to remove mine and get the shaft welded from the years of wear. you need to use the inside grove as someone stated. I am guessing you just recently got this tractor? Is one of the belt guards rubbing the belt? You cant really raise the deck to much to mow as the belt rubs. the green belts work ok for me and I get like 2 years from one. I have new extras in the shed and carry an old beater belt wrapped around the seat as I mow the fence line and if it breaks I got another one to put one. All the "GREEN DUST" around the pully area shows you where the problem is as that's were the wear is occurring.its possible the wrong spring was installed by the prior owmer and pulling too hard on the belt also. PLEASE POST YOUR FINDING WHEN FIXED SO ALL MY LEARN! GOOD LUCK!

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JoggerFogger

CVSB10JCS,

Ok, I think I've narrowed it down to belt alignment.

- Using the inside groove.

- Got the tractor in 2013. At the time I was mostly using my '64 Landlord that my dad bought in 1977. I've been having deck belt problems the whole time.

- All that green dust came about when I lost the idler bolt while mowing (pictured here). I used what I had in the garage with extra washers and spacers. I also lined up the "belt stop" wrong and had it like the picture in the manual, straight down, 6 o'clock. It was rubbing the belt going the other way (below) and kicking up all sorts of green dust.

Belt%2BDohicky.JPG

Questions:

1. "hanger hickie" Is that what the two idler pulleys are mounted to?

I've been thinking about this more and more. One thing that happened, is that the last two belts have broken under no strain, not hot, pretty good shape, closely monitored. They just POP. When I put on this belt that's too long, and try to mow with it, it falls off in 10 seconds. It jammed itself between the PTO drive belt and the body of the PTO. I'm thinking the problem is the belt jumping off and getting sliced by the PTO pulley.

No replies necessary. Sorry about all the words. It's mostly me thinking out loud. I have some work to do before I go to the next step.

1. check deck height/level.

2. get new belt and check idler alignment.

3. lift seat, take off LR wheel, and take video from all angles of deck running for guys at Simple Tractors.

-Kevin

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ShaunE

Okay I'm shooting at the moon here. It's been several years since I sold my 712 Allis. But my 900 series Allis & the 7100 series Simplicity have the red/green/red sticker for maintaining the correct belt tension. The fixed pulley directly below the cone clutch is mounted with a carriage bolt in a slot so you can loosen the outside nut & slide the pulley in either direction to achieve the correct tension as the belt stretches. Could the tension be the issue?

Mule Drive is the "Hanger Hickie" you were referring to.

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JoggerFogger
quote:Originally posted by ShaunE

Could the tension be the issue?


id="quote">
id="quote">I think the tension is right. It's similar to any V-belt tension that I've experienced on a car or all the other belts on this tractor. Snug, but not guitar string tight.When the belt length is right, you can barely slide the belt in place before you throw the tensioner arm to apply the spring tension on the belt. There's only so much tension you can put on it. Too little and it flops around and flies off.-Kevin

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