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Homelite T16 vs AC 716H

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PatRarick
Kent, I know the mower deck will interchange between the AC built Homelites and the 300 and 400 series AC's. I borrowed the 48" deck of my T-16S to a friend who used it on his 312S, until he got time to replace his deck bearings. Pat

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Kent
I guessed the decks would, and that tells me that the front hitch points are the same width -- does anyone know about the front attachments such as snowblower? Seems both the Homelites and the 300/400 series are pretty rare and any ability to share attachments would be a good thing to know... I'd guess you could swap out the rear lift group on a Homelite and use any Simplicity rear attachments, since Allis offered kits to convert. For anyone who doesn't know, the 300 series and some of the 400 series had a different size rear hitch. While the FTC was trying to decide if they were going to block Allis-Chalmers purchase of Simplicity, the 300 and 400 series were made so that the attachments wouldn't directly interchange with the Simplicity. In 1974, starting with serial number 41001 and up, Allis went back to the "standard" rear hitch, and offered kits to update the earlier tractors... see the link below for more info.[A href='http://www.simpletractors.com/what_fits/400_series.htm']http://www.simpletractors.com/what_fits/400_series.htm[/a]

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Woodydel
The differences on mine are electric front PTO, beefier and high center front axle, Vickers hydro, electric lift, upside down hood, wider attachment mounting points, single round headlight each side and rear lift rectangular bar instead of round on the AC version...Woody

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PatRarick
Woody, I know that there were two different T-16's. One was Allis built, and one was Simplicity built. I was under the impression that the Simplicity built was identical to the Simplicity model, while the Allis built had many differences from both Allis and Simplicity. I had an Allis built T-16, so I know what you are talking about with the higher clearance, beefier front axle, and the electric front clutch. Wasn't the rear lift rectangular only on the Allis built Homelites? I have two Homelite tillers. One has the rectangular lift arm, and the other has the round. Did someone change this to a round arm? I have never seen a Simplicity built Homelite, other than pictures. I looked at the Homelite section, and the front axle of the Simplicity built Homelites appears the same as Simplicity. Only the Allis built have the "upside down" grill. The picture of your Homelite shows a Simplicity built model with four headlights. I'm really confused now. Can you explain? Pat

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johnmonkey
I have a allis built homelite (built in the Hahn or Han factory). It is a T-16H ser #28501465, it looks identical to woodys except mine has the original paint and an american flag sticker on each side of the hood below the head lights although someone may have added those. The 42" snow blower that I have on my 7016H will not fit one the allis built homelite, the hitch bar would not be able to hook on the front edge of the axle and the hitch width on the homelite is 11 1/4" on center where the simplicity is 10.5" on center. The rear tiller on the homelite is driven off a pulley on the left hand side of the bevel gear box and a tensioner pulley is mounted on the tiller itself controling its function. It has the rectangle shaped lift arm. The mower deck on the homelite is a shallow deck with right hand discharge operating off of the front pto. I don't believe this deck would operate on a mid pto tractor because the blades would be spinning backwards. The date code on the engine makes it out to be a late 1972. I was wondering if the electric lift would be the same as a simplicity? I hope that helps, Scott BTW I have the original owners manuals for the tractor, 36" tiller and 48" mowing if anyone needs a copy I could scan and send it to you.
  • Thanks 1

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Tired
Hey Woody, Does yours still have the original exhaust discharging out of the grille??? Mine is long gone and a simplicity exhaust will not fit without cutting a hole in the hood. Could you snap a picture of it?? Scott

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Woodydel
Scott, that disintegrated long ago,the exhaust tube that is. My Cub Cadets have front discharge exhaust I'll take a look. Maybe those can be adapted. Have you tried really hard to find a new one?Woody

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PatRarick
I think I understand now. Your statements as to the upside down grill, heavier front axle, rectangular PTO, and only two headlights, had me confused because I was trying to fit those statements to the other T-16 that you posted in your response to my message about the T-16 for sale on e-Bay. Now, I'll restate what I understood earlier. The AC built, or early T-16H was a hybrid Simplicity/Allis-Chalmers, with a few "Homelite only" parts. The Simplicity built, or late T-16H, is identical to the AC 716H, and the Simplicity 7016H. Is this correct? Pat

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Woodydel
Gary, Above that rear pulley, an idler pulley is not there. The pulley you see is mounted on the shaft held in place with collars as you stated. I have a picture of how those two pulleys work with the tiller and will place here tomorrow for you..Woody

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Woodydel
I do know that parts for the Simplicity 7016H are the same. The rear lift and the front PTO are the same. Sam has stated in the past that he believes the AC version to be much tougher and underrated..I concure..It even has cast logos and not stickers...Woody

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Tired
I had my local Simplicity dealer check into it and they found out after a few phone calls that it was a discontinued part. I wish that simplicity dealers hade parts locators like the auto dealers have to check other dealers inventory for nos parts, maybe someday... I also tried another dealer in Plainview and they did'nt have one either, Maybe Sandy Lake would have one. Thanks, Scott

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Kent
Pat, speaking from only what I've read, and NO firsthand experience, I think only the later Homelite MFR #1690049 T-16H is essentially the same. The T-16S (MFR #1600321) is Allis-made, as are the T-16s with MFR#s of 1600285, 1600337 or 1690049.

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Kent
Talk about timing -- guess what showed up in my mailbox today, courtesy of Sam Ericson[A href='http://www.simpletractors.com/homelite/allis-made.htm'][img src='http://www.simpletractors.com/images/homelite/pg_3-1_small.jpg'][/a]

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Kent
Geeeeeeeeez Kent that picture scared me I thought it was my Homey. Anyway the Homelites had two rear lifts. One was the round one for certain attachments and offered the retangular one for certain other attachments that would try to twist while trying to be used. Just a little to add at this time. >>-happyjack<-<<

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MPH
Guys: Now I think I have Allis built Homelite. It looks exactly like Woody's, although it's a T12. Badges, grille, console, front axle is wider than Simplicity mounts I picked up, it does have a Vickers also. It's my first tractor, picked it up from town Cemetary dept for $50 & it runs great & looks pretty good too! (no rub Woody!) I've added a simplicity snow/dirt blade, 48" blower and grader which I'm waiting to use this Spring. Only repair I need to make is left axle wobble, I guess I need to go with the one piece they now make from what I've heard. Anyhow want to thank all the guys on here for their valuable help on these cool old tractors. Kinda reminds me of my old Series Land Rover (aka safari) which was just a big Mechano set! Regards: Gary Hamilton North of Boston p.s. was that a rear pulley, (pto) I saw on your tractor Woody? Does it go on the round spindle that is held on back by to set collars?? Also any help with setting up a rear counterweight bracket for my front attachments? I have the center weight & donut.

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Kent
Gary, Now you have me more confused (that seems to be easily done lately). According to the Homelite Cross-Reference that Jeff Nemes provided, I would have thought that a Homelite T-12 was essentially a Simplicity 3415H with a 12HP engine instead of 15HP... plus different paint and decals, of course. Question for the more knowledgeable... Do the Allis-made Homelite attachments interchange with the AC 300/400 series, other than having a rectangular rear lift? They both have right-discharge decks, it seems... What about the width of the front hitch points for snow/dozer blades, snowthrowers, etc. [A href='http://www.simpletractors.com/homelite/H_S_(pg1).htm']http://www.simpletractors.com/homelite/H_S_(pg1).htm[/a]

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Woodydel
There's another difference between the two machine types. My AC version has a solid bar to the rear lift while the Simplicity uses a cable and pulleys..With the AC version and the electric lift I was always able to exert some down force on the blades..Woody

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Woodydel
Sam, Though it doesn't look good, the AC (red) Homelite needs very little except gas/cap guage,seat and rear PTO upper idler pulley. Oh, and a complete teardown of course. The Simplicity version a seat and gas/cap guage are needed since I have the mechanical front PTO and the rear lift group on the way as I type this. I will take a look at your auction. Did you get my email about the 48" mower manual for the AC Homelite? My first email came back as a timeout from the mail server??

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PatRarick
That tears it. I must get my old Homelite T-16 shuttle back. Would someone tell me why I sold it? Hindsight, you know. Kent, I'm not sure if the snowblower will fit from the 300 - 400 series, but it is possible. Looked at a friend's 300 series last evening. It is a completely diffent drive system. On his 314, a belt runs from the front PTO back to a jackshaft almost to the center of the tractor under the footrests. Another belt runs from the jackshaft to the snowblower. On the Homelite that I sold, the belt runs pretty much the same as any Simplicity/AC that runs the snowblower off the front PTO. It comes down off the front and directly to the snowblower. The 300 snowblower looks like it should fit on the Homelite, unless there would be a problem with belt or frame clearance, due to the different front axle. If no one sheds any light on this question before spring, I will attempt to mount the 300 snowblower on the Homelite (both of these friends will gladly loan me thier equipment to try this), and let you know then. Pat

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