7117 What to do

[MercerRec 96]

Well, this new to me 1980 7117 followed me home recently. Initially was planning on it being just parts (it smokes hard after a fresh oil change) and I was told the hydro was dead. But, the hydro is fine (someone depressed the bypass), and it drove decent on a lap around the yard, so I started thinking about rebuilding the KT17 series 2 or re-powering it and getting it back in service. After a brief search of my local tractor yards yielded no used power options, I started thinking about re-ringing the motor. Compression was 88 on the right, 78 or so on the left. It starts and runs good, you just can't see anything after firing it up. And then, I looked at the 3012 in my other bay (I just listed in the classifieds here) and started thinking about the possibility of swapping its good running 12hp into the 7117. I know a lot of you guys have knowledge on the swaps, rebuilds, and repowers, and just wanted to see what the team here thinks might be the best option. To further dilute the subject, I also have a 1979 7016 six speed that runs good but has no attachments. Ideally, I need to rig 2 tractors with blowers and mowers. But that info will just complicate the current scenario. What do you guys think? Rebuild, repower, swap?

[yukon 331]

repower.

[rokon2813 272]

Is there a crankcase vent on a KT 17? Maybe some of the smoke is from there.

Otherwise, repower.

The swap would leave you with a parts 3012, and you would still have to rewire, and that 12 in that tractor will have an oil fill / dipstick issue

[720nut 4,225]

I agree repower, Welcome to the club

[MercerRec 96]

Ahh, looks like the repower option is ahead in the poll. I've done some research on that, and there are quite a few threads that reference Al Edens.

What are some good, current repower option? Are there any engines out there on the secondary (used) market that would be worthwhile? Thanks.

[PhanDad 3,618]

Repowers always have more options. Many of us have put 16HP single cylinder Briggs into the KT powered tractors. There are wiring (magneto vs powered coil), driveshaft (length), and possible oil pan (getting the pan to fit in the frame) issues. The engines are available used.

Here's a post with other links about the conversion:

http://www.simpletractors.com/club2/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=48515

The engine in the 3012 is probably a Briggs so it could be swapped in just like the 16HP version described in the above post. You could probably use the driveshaft, voltage regular, and exhaust if you swapped it into the 7117.

If you search the, you'll see info about repowers of later 2 cylinder engines - Kohler Commands, Briggs Vanguards, Harbor Freight Predators. IMO, they would all involve more work than the older single cylinder Briggs or Kohlers (frame drilling, possible engine raising, exhaust issues).

And finally, Brettw, IMO, is one of the experts on this site as far as rebuilding the KT engines. The first question he always asking is the breather working? I don't know if the compression figures you listed are too low to be a "big" problem. Hopefully he'll chime in with his opinion. I do know many people love the KT and newer Magnum engines when they're right.

Bottom line (as usual) is how much $$ and time do you want to invest.

[Gary 101]

Also available, the Kohler M18 Twin (also requiring a wiring/ignition switch change). They are available used, and if you look hard enough, you can possibly find one new. I put a new one in my Allis 917H (short article in "Show & Tell"). There is a lot of help on this site, for any choice you make. A lot of these good folks help me with my build.

[Brettw 1,134]

If you ae going to spend the coin on a new kit, I would not spend it on a manual lift tractor. I would look for a great tractor in need of an engine.

And if you are going to dedicate one of your tractors to a blowing machine, make it the one with the most horspower. Blowing takes way more than cutting grass.

That's my opinion. That plus about 2 bux nowadays gets you a cup of coffee. Take accordingly.)

[MikeES 458]

I would investigate a rebuild. Most KT/M engines just need a honing and new rings. Total cost for parts less than $140 on e-bay.

That is my nickels worth.

[colincox1 62]

take a look at the link in my sig below

[Mike_H 92]

So, If a repower IS in your future, I have a Command 20HP I'd be willing to move....

[MikeES 458]

Patrick, I am getting your PMs but for some reason I cannot reply to them nor send a PM. So I am responding here.

First, if you haven't already, download the service manual from Kohler or this site, follow the directions especially the part about marking the parts, as most are the same from left to right side.

They are simple engines and would be easier than a snowmobile engine. Open it up first just down to removing the cylinders, from that point you can determine if you need to get into the rods and crank, and if it needs to be bored out. Most only need to be honed, and new rings, but if you need more, you will then need to weight the cost vs a repower. i.e. Oversized pistons and undersized rods are $$, if you can find them.

Some may tell you to replace the governor gear, but that does require splitting the case. My experience is that if the gear is amber to brown in color and not dark brown to black, and no cracks or chunks missing...I would leave it be.

[MercerRec 96]

Well, I pulled the heads. Looks like the left piston crown is upset about something, probably heat. And some pitting on the right side cylinder.

[MercerRec 96]

Right cylinder pitting. Nothing looks catastrophic here, other than likely needing oversize pistons.

[MikeES 458]

Looks like a lot of carbon around the valve seats, could be your low compression problem.

I found (thrown out in the junk) a M20 that had carbon like that, no compression. Clean up the carbon lapped the valves, used a pick to clean the carbon out of the top ring (never removed pistons), put in our pulling tractor and got a first place first time out, and still running strong.

I don't know for sure where the carbon came from, but it also had a bad/broken umbrella breather. Because it does not burn any oil and does not smoke at all.

[MercerRec 96]

Left piston. There is interesting wear near the top of the cylinder, looks like the piston is loose in the bore and rocking near the top of the stroke. As noted there is quite a bit of carbon buildup. Expensive rebuild with o/s pistons, machine work along with valve work. Looking more like a parts motor.

[Kenh 37]

Small engine warehouse has some "almost" drop in options for our tractors

Ken

[Kenh 37]

Are the KT 17 and KT 19 crankcases the same?? Can you put 19 parts in a 17? Yes it's kind of an open ended question. LOL!

Ken

[Brettw 1,134]

quote:Are the KT 17 and KT 19 crankcases the same?? Can you put 19 parts in a 17? Yes it's kind of an open ended question.id="quote">

id="quote">

Question #1 Yes. Within the Series.

Question #2 KT Series 2 and Series 1 are different in the lubrication system, otherwise many of the parts are interchangeable. In keeping with the Same seies, almost all of them are. Same bore, different stroke. So the crank and rods are different, the rest of the parts are generally interchangeable, as thee Series 2 are with the Magnum Series also.

[Kenh 37]

Originally posted by Brettw

quote:

id="quote">The reason I'm asking is my KT19 has a broken foot that was welded back on. Whoever did the work did a nice job but that foot sets a bit high and needs to be shimmed. I also have a bad oil leak when it just sets. I think it may be coming from that broken foot area. If somebody had a good set of case halves I'd swap my parts over. OH, I have a series 1Thanks for the information!!

[MikeES 458]

Ken, which case half do you need...the right side are hard to come by as that is the side that usually blows out with a broken rod. I would think that the left sides is plentiful, I know I have one or two.

MercerRec, what does the cylinder look like, could you get by with just a used piston? They are also plentiful for the KTs, I think I have a couple of those also.

[Kenh 37]

quote:Originally posted by MikeES

Ken, which case half do you need...the right side are hard to come by as that is the side that usually blows out with a broken rod. I would think that the left sides is plentiful, I know I have one or two.MercerRec, what does the cylinder look like, could you get by with just a used piston? They are also plentiful for the KTs, I think I have a couple of those also.

---

id="quote">

id="quote">Case halves are matched to each other so you can't use one half without its mate. I need to pull the engine and see exactly what is going on with it. May be something stupid simple????Ken

[mtoney 0]

If I was in your place. I would pull the engine completely down, mic all the bearings, mic the bores, espicaly the side with the piston head wear. Atleast with this design, you can replace just the jug(s) as needed. Replace the gov gear. If your spending your time and money to repair the engine, please do it right. If you plan to keep the tractor long term, do yourself a favor and do not cut corners. BTDT and regretted it. A properly rebuilt Kohler KT series 2 should last another 20+ years with proper upkeep. A half assed rebuild is a ticking time bomb IMHO. The engine served the tractor good for all these years, I would go thru it and have a tractor that will last many more years. Just my 2 cents. Mike

[MercerRec 96]

Well, the KT17 is on the bench until either a set of pistons and matching bore cylinders miraculously show up; or I source a command, magnum, or other reliable used powerhead.  Since the machine doesnt have hydro lift or power steering its $$$ challenging to invest new repower level funds into this tractor.  At least for me.

I did drop the 12hp from the 3012 into the 7117 and it spins a 48" mower nicely.  I was able to use the entire wiring harness and related peripherals from the 3012 so swapping it in was really plug and play (save the one 3012 nanny switch pigtail which I didnt wire in but will as soon as I determine what I want to 'nanny').   The (now generator powered) headlights are really bright which was a nice surprise compared to my 7016 that resembles birthday candles up front.  Other than that no surprises and the only part that needed fabrication was installing a new throttle conduit.

The tractor is around a 1990 and could use a few more ponies......I did pick up a decent 7116 hood this weekend but really want to install a twin.

I'll post a pic of the 12hp install for anyone else that may contemplate the swap.

Edited September 26, 2016 by MercerRec
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