L-12 loader cylinders

[MPH 12]

Been truing to repair or replace the bucket cal on my Wards loader with hope to mount it on a 716 I have, in need of TLC of course. The rods are pitted bad, though the seal looks like it should come out I can't find a fit in the 2 bearing shops in Anchorage. Got to wondering what the size of the L-12 loader bucket cal are. Mine are 1 7/8 outside dis, a 1 in rod and 16 inch fully collapsed center to center length with pin hole connecting points. Found a possible replacement on the surplus center site for 97 bucks but it has cleaves ends and rated at 1500lbs, haven't found any info on the rating of mine.

If some has one handy maybe you  could take a tape measure to it...    Thanks.

[GregB 940]

Marty,

You looking for info on the lift cylinders, or the tilt cylinder?

I have them stored somewhere on my to do shelf.

Let me know, I can measure them up.

 

[Kent 435]

Not sure if this is of any value Marty...

 

 

[MPH 12]

The tilt cal Greg. But looking at Kents pictures it looks like it only has one tilt cyl.

Thanks for the pics Kent.

[Kent 435]

Yes it has only one double-acting tilt/dump cylinder, and two single-acting lift cylinders.  Having owned one, I tell everyone who's building/modifying one for work (not restoring to original for show) to consider replacing the single-acting lift cylinders with double-acting cylinders and an appropriate control valve, to give you hydraulic down pressure on the bucket.  Would make it much more useful... Then, with a toothbar on the bucket you could actually dig with it, though you'd want to be careful about overstressing axle tubes/subframe/BGB connections.  As is, they're really only useful for scooping and hauling loose material.

 

[Talntedmrgreen 1,978]

I'm of a differing opinion, having used a few of these loaders, as well as other makes on other brand tractors.  These tractors are testing their limits by pushing and lifting with one of these loaders and the forces exerted on them is much different and greater when you try to dig or begin applying down pressure.  Hell, my Legacy is challenged with 'digging', even with a locking rear differential and boat loads of rear weight.  Many of the footdraggers suffer from frame failure at the BGB plate, and axle tubes are the achilles tendon on them.  I think Simplicity did themselves a favor by not having Henry add double acting cylinders to the loaders...I think we would see many more tractors broken in half, or stranded with busted axle tubes. These tractors simply aren't built to do it.  I played with a Johnson loader on a jake I had, and it had tremendous down force.  Since those early loaders didn't have float, it was actually difficult to use the loader without losing your steering control.  It was real easy to drive the bucket downward and have the tractor try to crawl right up under itself, and I'm not sure a Simplicity would stall before the tube snaps if a guy wasn't Johnny on the spot with the clutch or hydro lever.

[Kent 435]

Well, I said to be careful...  IMO, any of the Simplciity machines with a loader on them should have reinforcing side plates that reinforce the BGB/rear frame connection.  Then, you still are taking chances with axle tubes.

Yes, I snapped an axle tube on my 2012 using the loader without down pressure, running a 10" speed reduction pulley -- but the 2012 was very worn when I got it, as in "rode hard and put away wet" worn... . Not quite "used up" since it still ran good, but close to it.  The keyways were shot  (After I rebuilt/restored the Big Ten, the loader ended up going on it.)  You would certainly need to learn to control the tilt angle, and the float position for the loader arms.  My Power Tracs, being full-time 4WD, want to climb up onto the loader bucket in float, but that is better than breaking things.  And,  with 4WD on them, you tend to spin the front tires, which tells you to release some of the down pressure if not in float.

[Mike_H 92]

I'm gonna agree with Josh on this one.  While I haven't used a loader on a garden tractor, I have quite a bit of experience on purpose build loader machines.  Even 30 and 40 HP diesels in Compact tractors designed to run "real" front buckets have a hard time digging.   Now, you get into construction grade equipment and you can dig a pretty nice hole...but that is a whole other category of machine.  

[Kent 435]

25 minutes ago, Mike_H said:

I'm gonna agree with Josh on this one.  While I haven't used a loader on a garden tractor, I have quite a bit of experience on purpose build loader machines.  Even 30 and 40 HP diesels in Compact tractors designed to run "real" front buckets have a hard time digging.   Now, you get into construction grade equipment and you can dig a pretty nice hole...but that is a whole other category of machine.  

Toothbars (or welded on teeth) on the bucket make a huge difference in the ability to dig... and yes, I did state "with a toothbar on the bucket you could actually dig with it"...  Any loader without a teeth on the bucket has quite limited digging ability.  For example, I put this toothbar on the little Kubota 7000 I had.

Then, with down pressure (which it had plenty of, as demonstrated below) you could slice a 2" to 3" cut -- though it did have 4wd. But, you're putting a lot of stress on the frame and subframe.  The amount of traction you can get determines how thick of a slice of material you could dig out.

The advantage of a tooth bar over welded-on teeth is that they are quickly removed when not needed (usually two bolts), and  with some you can loose those bolts, pivot the tooth bar up into the bucket, and use the bucket edge for back dragging, then quickly pivot it back down again and tighten the bolts for more digging.

To sum up my experience the Simplicity loaders -- I could dig better with a simple Johnny Bucket with my HB-216s hydro lift down pressure than I could with the 2012 with the loader and no down pressure -- but the loader would move far more loose material in a shorter time...

My 2 cents, and your mileage may vary.....