Simplicity 17GTH

[a_sannine 854]

Hello Guys

Wiring experts help needed

I just bought a beautiful GTH in mint condition , tractor been sitting for over 15 years in a heated garage  , long story short tractor sat due to electric problem .

Got the chance to tinker with it  a little this after noon , after flushing system from old gas ,cleaning carb , changing oil , turning engine by hand after I put mystery oil in cylinders , time to fire , I turn key nothing , no noise from solenoid , I test by light the wire that comes to solenoid from switch , there is power , I thought I have a bad solenoid , I took it out and bench tested it , working fine , so I Narrowed  the problem to a bad ground , put it back , (solenoid 4 poles  ), I jumped a direct ground from battery .now tractor cranks  , so I fired it  ,started right up engine ran like a sewing machine , took it out around the house runs like top .tractor seem to have  very little hours .

Back to ground problem ,after I cleaned battery to frame  ground , and another ground that goes to engine mount  ,  I tested with light the ground wire coming to solenoid while off , I see a dim light on my tester , I am testing ground to ground !!!!!(solenoid 4 poles  ) , I tested at the engine ground ,same thing there is dim light ,that tells me there is a short some where No?

I put ground back to solenoid pole , turned key nothing .

Note: with direct ground wire from battery to solenoid , tractor will crank even if PTO clutch/drive / seat switch engaged . so by giving it a direct ground I by passed all safeties .

what I am missing here ?

Why I am getting a dim light on my tester even though I am testing ground to ground , the dim light comes on when key turned to first click

I bridged  all safety switches , seat / PTO/ drive , same thing ,nothing changed .

tractor got no mice damage what so ever , just mint like the day it rolled out of the lot .

Thoughts ?

 

 

, 

Edited February 15, 2017 by a_sannine

[rokon2813 272]

I've never played with one that new, but I've heard of people having issues with a "module"  that controls the safety circuits ?

Would that tractor have one of those ??

[PhanDad 3,616]

I agree with Dan,  I'd put $$ on a faulty interlock (safety) module (IM), or the wiring to/from it.  I'm almost positive the tractor would have one.  I put the "Electrics Manuals" for years 1990 thru 2003 in the site's "Downloads" section.  With the tractor's mfg# you'll be able to find a wiring diagram for your tractor. 

If it's wired like most newer tractors, all grounds pretty much go though the IM, so it could be as simple as a dirty ground there could be the issue.

[a_sannine 854]

Thanks guys ,yes the tractor has a module that I saw when I took solenoid out , I will download the  Manuals .

hopefully if weather helps I'll look into it , and figure out how to test it .

I'll share a photo when all done .

what a beauty

 

[a_sannine 854]

Based on some research I did it could be a bad ignition switch as well ,where terminals inside switch defected causing  such a problem.

I'll make sure I test  switch as well.

Any part number for that  module ?

Thanks

Found it ,part number Simplicity 1685466SM     

Ouch $120 , I hope it is not the problem .

Edited February 16, 2017 by a_sannine

[a_sannine 854]

I took gas tank off to have a better view of wiring , I think I have a bad relay , cheap like $12 , I was mistaken on the part number I provided above as it is not existed on the tractor , only this relay , couldn't find same exact number though , the  best match is 332209150.

I got two other GTH that I can take relay off , but it is a pain to get to it so I'll just wait for one I ordered to get in.

Edited February 16, 2017 by a_sannine

[PhanDad 3,616]

What you show is BLT's famous "Bosch" relay that's used to do many tasks.

I doubt that's your problem.  Does the wiring appear "hacked"?  Or still original?

What's the mfg# of the tractor.  I'm curious to check the wiring diagram for relays.   I helped a neighbor with a late model Regent, I couldn't believe all the wiring/sensors that tractor has.  My local dealer who I now know pretty well has said most of the problems he has to "fix" now are interlock/wiring issues.  Many while the tractor is still under warranty.  

 

[a_sannine 854]

Thank u Bill

No hacking to wires all intact .

I appreciate if u share  the wiring diagram  to see if it is different than mine .

tractor M/N 1691957

[a_sannine 854]

relay part number 1726829SM

[PhanDad 3,616]

OK, the tractor is a 17GTH-L, just like I used to have.  More of the confusion with "GTH" tractor, which is not a Sovereign class tractor).

The relay is only used in the "ignition" circuit.  As I understand your problem, it's the solenoid not pulling in, so the issue is in the "safety start & 'operator present' circuit".  You are correct that there is NOT an IM for this tractor.  It is however, IMO, the most complicated of the Sovereign's before the IM appeared on the Sovereign 18.  Here are wiring diagrams with the various "circuits" bolded:

 

So to me, your issue is the wiring that runs through the PTO switch, then the trans switch and then to ground. 

I think the relay is OK since the ignition works when you direct ground the solenoid.  

PS - I believe the relay and diode are there to cut the ignition +12v if the operator isn't in the seat and either the PTO isn't off or the tranny isn't in neutral - a function that is in the later model Sovereign's IM.  

[a_sannine 854]

Thank you Bill for the help .

I am gonna bring it to my garage as it is in a shed in another location , that way I'll have more time diagnosing the problem without  freezing lol

I will do a continuity test on that ground wiring  to see what's the problem and what's causing it .

It is always fun when the problem is  challenging and more fun when u solve it .

[Vagabond 114]

Have you considered a short in the battery?  Is an old battery or new?

[a_sannine 854]

11 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Have you considered a short in the battery?  Is an old battery or new?

Battery strong from a running tractor that passed load test .

[Vagabond 114]

14 minutes ago, a_sannine said:

Battery strong from a running tractor that passed load test .

Soft short might not show with load test unless/until discharged for 12 hours. Best luck!.

[a_sannine 854]

Problem solved , bad ground wire from seat switch to engine mount .

You were right Bill not relay

 

Edited February 18, 2017 by a_sannine

[fishnwiz 3,290]

[yukon 331]

we need pics

[a_sannine 854]

[a_sannine 854]

[fishnwiz 3,290]

Sweeeeet! 

[B10Dave 1,787]

That is one nice tractor. You were lucky to find such a nice example. 

[PhanDad 3,616]

That's one very nice tractor.  And the engine's in good shape too!

[a_sannine 854]

The seat like new

This tractor runs like top

I just finished changing every drop of oil it has , greased it all .

I am still in disbelieve the owner let it sit that long due to a bad ground .

He saved it for me

Next good wash and polish

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by a_sannine