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Cliff

Prospective buyer needs hydro issue advice

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Cliff

Hi Guys,

I'm searching for a tractor/mower to do my 8X a year mowing at my 1/2 acre of mostly treed property...lol...yeah, I know, buy a goat. I located two machines, same owner, one is a Simplicity 7114, the other an Allis-Chalmers 912, I know, same machines, different colors. Both are in good condition except the Simplicity has a locked hydro. I actually prefer the Simplicity but besides the hydro issue it has no lift other than the manual lever, the 912 has an electric lift. The owner is asking $275 for the 7114 and $500 firm for the 912. I like the 7114 more, I guess it's really just a paint thing that's more appealing. My question is what can I do about the locked hydro and how would I determine if it's shot or fixable, I have like a day to decide since he is getting calls on them but he agreed to give me a couple days to make a decision. I need help and I need it quickly, thoughts?

Cliff58d0abc628aa4_Simplicity7114.thumb.jpg.72a73070303fa1bcb376179c44cf7d7f.jpg58d0ab0be5c96_Allis-Chalmers912.thumb.jpg.466a42caf7a6fac875178d15f2a1df61.jpg

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720nut

Both are nice tractors, personally I'ld go with the Allis as I know nothing about these hydro's. You may be able to swap a rear on the Simplicity. Just my $.02

Welcome to the club.

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Brettw

We would need a bit more info.  The actual hydro on these tractros is pretty bullet proof.  If we had a better definition of "locked" we may be able to help.  Even a bad differential will either not have the tractor move, but spin the axle, or move but not allow the differential to do it's thing and have positraction, like a solid axle.  Does locked mean that any attempt to move the tractor kills the engine, as in moving the lever the hydro is trying but gears / rear end are locked up solid?  Or does locked mean it isn't moving when the lever is moved?  It's kind of rare that these have true transmission issues.  

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GregB

Locked hydro.  Does that mean you cannot push it , engine not running?  Under the seat on the top of the hydro pump, there are two pressure relief valves.  There should be a bracket to push them down and lock them in that position, so you can push the tractor with out running the engine.  If you try to tow the tractor without disengagine these valves you may damage trans.

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Cliff

OK, just spoke with him, he pulled the release, it doesn't release. It can't be moved when running or not running. I could hear it over the phone and when he engaged the drive there was a screaching noise, sounds to me like belts slipping, he agreed with that and he repairs larger tractors for a living so I trust he knows a belt slip noise when he hears it. He did say there was a spring of some sort that was stretched out and flopping around, I have no idea if that has anything to do with the issue but he said that spring attached to the pulley, maybe it's some sort of tension spring? That's the scoop on what I know about it at this point. Any thoughts are appreciated.

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PhanDad

If your lucky, the spring that keeps tension on the tranny drive belt idler is the problem, an easy fix (belt from BGB (bevel gear box) to hydro pump input pulley).

If the hydro input pulley is turning OK and continues to turn when the hydro lever is moved, then it's a hydro/tranny issue.  Could be easy  fix or not. 

The hydro release is pushed IN to push the tractor; it latches down to keep the pins of the valves pushed in.  Once they are pushed in, sometimes they don't want to come back up and the tractor won't move under power, but you can still push it. 

If he took a video of the back right side of the tractor as shown in this pic:

IMG_4784.thumb.jpg.b2e120e0afc5a4b4f94a56bb8056083a.jpg   we could help more.

You can see the tension spring hanging above the idler pulley in question.  It's quite common for that idler arm bushing to seize from lack of use - the clutch is usually not depressed on a hydro tractor.  After years of not moving, if the clutch is depressed, the idler moves away from the belt and doesn't return.  The result is a slipping belt and a non moving tractor.   

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PhanDad

Here's a video I shot of the same area, only difference being a Vickers hydro rather than a Sundstrand hydro:

 

Edited by PhanDad
addie correction
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MikeES

I had picked up a 916H with hydraulic lift and no engine.  The transaxle was locked up could not move it even with the release buttons down.   I assumed it was a problem with the gears in the transaxle, did not have an engine so I did not have a reference with input into the hydro.

Sold the tractor as is and the new owner found the hydro was hamburger inside.   The transaxle was good, and the rest of the tractor did not show a lot of hours.  No fluid leaks and the hydro fluid was full and clean.

Our best guess was that it was pulled too fast or too far or both.

So a "locked up" hydro can be a wreaked hydro.

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Cliff
PGL

Myself, unless I knew before buying it would be a simple fix, I would buy the one that works.  Avoid troubles and possible high $ and disappointment.

Edited by PGL
add $

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Kent
26 minutes ago, Cliff said:

Only the hydrostatic pump, it appears. Not the complete transmission...

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PhanDad
11 hours ago, Kent said:

Only the hydrostatic pump, it appears. Not the complete transmission...

And it doesn't look like the hydraulic connections were keep clean when dismantled.  Dirt = death for the hydraulic motor.

(And it should be the same pump as the 7114 has.)

But as Bill725 said, buy both and you'll have a lot more spares.  And maybe a "package deal" price.

 

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