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Gotrek

Re-powered 9020 front PTO clutch

27 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hi new member with a simple question.  I bought a used 9020 that's been re powered with a Subaru/Robins 28hp FI motor.  The new motor has a 1.125" diameter keyed shaft vs the 1 7/16th on the onan so the Previous owner left the front PTO clutch on the old motor.  I'm trying to find a replacement but was wondering if anyone knew the original size of the pulley that used to drive the mower deck?  He never mowed with it since the repower only tilled.

IMG_20170429_111655[1].jpg

Edited by Gotrek

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Your crank should be 1.440 dia. You would have to turn your crank to 1.125 for 1 1/8 bore.

Anything can be made to work but I don't think newer clutches have enough material to enlarge them.

I've thought several times about building a cutter that would allow a person to turn crankshaft without removing from engine.

Someone will probably have different thoughts .

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38 minutes ago, 720nut said:

Your crank should be 1.440 dia. You would have to turn your crank to 1.125 for 1 1/8 bore.

Anything can be made to work but I don't think newer clutches have enough material to enlarge them.

I've thought several times about building a cutter that would allow a person to turn crankshaft without removing from engine.

Someone will probably have different thoughts .

something that would attach to the front of the engine and would run a cutter along the shaft while the engine runs.

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Posted (edited)

Unless  I am missing something in the size references , according to the original post the new shaft is 1.125 and the old one is 1 7/16" so I would guess you can possibly get a bushing to make the larger clutch hole fit the new smaller shaft.I would believe the only issue than would be the key size, which i have also cut specialty keys in a pinch. As far as mounts I am not entirely sure how it mounts. I have made some bushings for applications such as this on bigger engines and have bought some for hydraulic applications.

As far as turning a crankshaft down I could see something similar to using a brake lathe with the engine running to allow one to turn down a shaft. The only real issue I could see would be cutting speed and quality of finish depending on the setup.

Edited by bkassulke
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Posted (edited)

No sorry the Onan was replaced with a 28HP fuel injected Subaru.  A lot of motor for such and old tractor but it came like that (40 hours on it)  The shaft on the new motor is 1.125 ( 1 1/8)  I just don't know much about clutches and haven't been sure what to order other then something with a similar pulley as the original, shaft size (and keyed) and counter clockwise rotation.  It's a 300$ mistake to make to get the wrong thing :D

 

I have the original Onan but the clutch on it is missing pieces, partially broken.  So I figured I'd get a new one.

Edited by Gotrek
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Posted (edited)

After speaking with Altra Motions (warner Clutches)  I'm going with one of the following.

 

They all have a 6.15" ID pulley and 7.340 outter diameter in the right revolution and bore size.  Hope it works :) 5218-288, 5218-348, 5218-380

 

Edited by Gotrek

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Nuts I just injured my max and in return she injured me.  Parts of her are still embedded in my body.

 

I wasn't doing much (yet) but when I fired her up she sounded a bit rattly, the rear pto clutch is locked in place with a chain link and I figured it might have come loose.  So I removed the cover.  Started the tractor to get a visual, it seemed fine and then BAM the pto driveshaft broke loose breaking the fiber disk coupler at the front.    But it gets worse.  The reason that happened is one of the fastners had come off.  Bent the drive shaft broke the fiber disk.  I'm still picking fiberglass out of my arm and face.

 

My story for today.  Demoralizing.  But lesson: Always check all the fastners on a used tractor.  Looks like it had done this before, the PO probably just straightened the shaft and reused it.  I'm guessing they don't make them anymore.  :(  Do they still make those fiber disks?

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So damage report the disk is done and the shaft has about a 30 degree bend in it but both ends are good. Either I'll make a new shaft using the ends or I'll straighten this one.  All is not lost :). The fiber disk I found they still sell if not I'll make one.  I found the missing bolt in a box of parts.  

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I would take to machine shop and have them make a new shaft, don't try cutting and welding together.

I see a disaster in the works,  Just my two cents.

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Posted (edited)

Yes I didn't mean I'll DIY because as good as I can weld and as pretty as I can make it won't mean it's straight and/or aligned :)

Took it out last night.  The splines are the same as on a jeep (24 spline 1") then it's just a hollow shaft to a 1 7/16" bushing (I'm guessing because simplicity wanted to continue using the same sized electric clutches they used on the front for cost savings.  Bringing it to a really good shop tomorrow (they do all our large industrial contracts in mining etc)

 

.

 

20170524_210317.jpg

20170524_210231.jpg

Edited by Gotrek

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Posted (edited)

Missing a fastner and once the fiber disk shattered It hit the steering linkage and hydraulic lines (both which are ok thankfully).  It hit in three places.

 

I Also remember the PO warning me about the fiberdisks and making sure the slip clutch on the tiller was loose enough.  I assume this happened to him before (since the one fastener was missing) and likely the shaft had already bent/been weakened.

 

Just a guess.  Should have my new shaft soon :)  The machine shop was cheaper then the one on ebay.  The one on ebay is about 500 canadian pesos vs under 200$ from the machine shop.  And the tolerances will likely be better then the used one.

Edited by Gotrek

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Posted (edited)

Good post, thanks for the info on the Jeep spline match, always nice to know where one can adapt parts.  And good luck with getten her going again.

Oh and what is the layout of that Subaru motor?  Number of cylinders, inline? opposed?

Edited by isetta

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It's a V-twin and sits in there just like the original.  The only thing required to make it work was a new engine mount ro raise it up since it's shorter then the onan.

Bonus you could get it with a 1 7/16" shaft and probably reuse the stock front PTO.

Some update.  I bought a clutch wiating for it to arrive.  but while waiting I noticed the Previous owner cut the crank shorter I don't know why/maybe he got a deal on the motor this way...  So that might be a huge problem.  It's not cut flat adn about 1" shorter then it should be.  Might have a hard time getting the pulley lined up.  But we'll see.

 

 

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Gotrek,

    I repowered my 9020 with the Honda Gx630 and went through the same fun you are having (minus the bent drive shaft, sorry about that).  One thing I noticed is that although I have a 6" pulley on my front clutch (mine is from OX) it's made for either 1/2" or 5/8" belts.  While this shouldn't matter, it does, slightly.  I had to move the pulleys forward to get the belt to tighten properly, which means the belt sits in the pulley a little lower and therefore the deck isn't spinning quite as fast either.  Just something to consider for your clutch and sorry, I haven't looked at posts in a while.

     For the shaft being shorter, the new PTO will mount unlike the old one.  For the new clutch, it "should" come with an insert and a bushing.  The bushing sits on the shaft towards the engine for proper spacing and the insert if needed, goes into the end of the clutch for cases where the shaft needs the support, the installation instructions should state something along the lines of just make sure the insert does not come into contact with the drive shaft. 

Looking forward to a running report.  I'm looking to replace my Ox with a slightly larger pulley or a 6" for only 1/2" belts.

 

BTW, I hate the fiber disks in these machines.  When I get some time (like that will happen) or swap my hydro, I'm going to take some measurements to replace the coupling arrangement with standard u-joints, maybe use a telescoping shaft.  Just a thought.

 

Dave

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Posted (edited)

I was thinking about that but if you replace your fiber disks you'd be risking your motor.  I think those fiber couplers are designed to fail to save the motor.  Although I'm thinking a thicker one might be better.

 

New shaft is done I'm getting it tomorrow.  160$ Canadian way better then 500$ for the used one on ebay :)

Edited by Gotrek

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The belt that came with my mower was 5/8" and not 1/2  The onan's original pulley seems to accept it as well.  Maybe that could be a solution for you.  Just use a 5/8" belt?

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The new shaft is ready  What a beauty... Way better then the used one :)  Thicker wall tube (just a bit) And super straight :)

Now It had enough bend in it originally I removed it without taking everything apart :)  Probably won't be as lucky now that it's straight :)

new_shaft.jpg

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