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reyzorguy

broadmoor dies

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reyzorguy

i have a mid 90's broadmoor with a cv15s kohler. over the winter it was hard to start requiring starting fluid to get going then ran fine. this spring it began stalling out after 30 minutes or so of cutting.

i have done the following:  new coil, new fuel pump, cleaned carb and new needle, cleaned stator, new battery, new fuel line, filter and cleaned and checked inside of tank, also put some insulation on fuel line where it crosses across the back of engine.

as i cut the grass and 20 minutes or so passes it will stagger, slow down and stall. if i push choke on before it dies out it will pick up rpm's but not fully recover. it seems to occur when going up hills. i have to wait an hour or so and it will run fine then and usually put it away then. one time i towed it back to the other side of the yard and coasted it down a hill to my shed. it was bit of a bumpy ride. i tried to start it then and it ran fine for about 15 minutes, leading me to believe it was a sticking needle or float. the float was not full of fuel when i took it apart. ( i had a float that had a pinhole and would sink after a while).

at this point i am wondering if the new needle is sticking, i runs very well until these issue occur. also it did need a spray of starting fluid recently even after recent upgrades. am considering a new carb now

i have since sold 2 of those pictured but may get 1 back soon

any advice much appeciated

rzr snorkel 006.JPG

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maxwood

Hello, Is it possible that it could be a coil  or condenser over heating ?  I am not familiar with that model  , just a thought.

 

Thanks Ken in Mi

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reyzorguy

its a new coil but i guess thats possible.

i put all new fuel lines, filter and cleaned gas tank

can a rectifier over heat and do this?

i am going to check the metal fuel line that is after the filter and fuel pump. maybe clogged or getting hot

my neighbor has a similar model i sold to her with the same carb. i may switch it out and try that 

i dont think its the new fuel pump as it did it with the old one. suppose both could be bad but i doubt that. i may do a pressure test on it

i am leaning to a carb  issue, maybe needle seat or float sticking

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reyzorguy

also a couple times i manually pushed the governor arm when it was dying out, it would pick up its idle for short bursts but begin to die.

one of those times as i continued trying to get it running it did run fine, but only for a few minutes. it could be ignition but at this point i 

am going to take the carb off again and check the float movement as well as trying to see if the needle may stick if i put it through its up down

movement by moving the float. a pinhole in the  float would cause a flooding or leak i believe. but ill check it again carefully

this is becoming my white whale................lol

 

 

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whistlefire

Almost sounds like a vapor locked gas tank. Run it again with the gas cap loose a verify thats not the problem first. Hard starting in the winter wouldn't be a symptom of that though...

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reyzorguy

the vent is not clogged, in fact i enlarged a bit. can blow through it easily. today i removed the carb, (again) and cleaned it with carb cleaner spray and blew it out with forced air. i cleaned the cavity where the float needle sits. i manually moved the float through its up down motion with the needle in place and the bowl off of course. no sticking. i cut grass for about 20 minutes or so and it died. i quickly loosened the float bowl nut and gas began dripping out. i think i can assume i am getting fuel and the needle is not sticking. i then iced down the rectifier to see if overheating it was an issue. no luck there. i also have  removed the low oil switch before and that didnt help. now i will test the coil for spark when it is hot.(its a new coil) also ill  test the stator to what it puts out when its running. i have loosened the fuel cap before and that doesnt help. i dont think the governor would stop working if it got hot.

 

thanks guys......... signed:    confused but not beaten     (yet)

 

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ShaunE

Okay here is a shot in the dark.  

Had this happen to a snow blower a couple years ago so humor me.  

Seat for the needle was made of a rubber like material.  10% Ethanol fuel swelled that seat to the point that fuel would still enter the bowl but not allow enough to keep it running.  Machine would fall on its rear end after 15 minutes of operation.  Pull the bowl & it's full of fuel right????

Drove me nuts.  

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reyzorguy
20 hours ago, ShaunE said:

Okay here is a shot in the dark.  

Had this happen to a snow blower a couple years ago so humor me.  

Seat for the needle was made of a rubber like material.  10% Ethanol fuel swelled that seat to the point that fuel would still enter the bowl but not allow enough to keep it running.  Machine would fall on its rear end after 15 minutes of operation.  Pull the bowl & it's full of fuel right????

Drove me nuts.  

as best i can tell the seat is metal, i loosened the carb bowl nut when it died and gas was coming out

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MARK (LI)

Some of those carb needles look like a metal part, but they are not.... it could be your problem   you have to buy the whole rebuild kit to get just that part...and some of the kits come with 2 different size needles for that size range Kohler ...I did have a similar problem with a 12.5 Kohler on a JD...and that was on a carb that was only 4 seasons old

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reyzorguy
On 5/22/2017 at 10:35 PM, MARK (LI) said:

Some of those carb needles look like a metal part, but they are not.... it could be your problem   you have to buy the whole rebuild kit to get just that part...and some of the kits come with 2 different size needles for that size range Kohler ...I did have a similar problem with a 12.5 Kohler on a JD...and that was on a carb that was only 4 seasons old

i have the entire rebuild kit with both needles, bowl gasket, welch plug etc. i only used the correct fit needle. the needle tip may be plastic or composite but i think the needle SEAT is metal.. did your kohler 12.5 stagger and stall after 20-30 minutes. i have two corresponding valve seats i may need to install the correct one for my needle, they appear to be plastic. the directions say to install  the matching valve seat but make no mention of removing the old one was your old seat  hard to remove?   ty   bob

i just had a thought, perhaps the needle is not seating  properly and then not shutting of the fuel off causing a flooding condition. 

Edited by reyzorguy
added thought

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Antlers170

I had this happen to me almost exactly as ur describing ..in the end it was the key vibrating half way or all the way to off position ..felt like a idiot after all the diff things i tried before i noticed this happening ..good luck ..

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reyzorguy
On 5/24/2017 at 8:55 PM, Brettw said:

Does it run well / normal, powerful up until the time it dies?  

yes it runs just as it should, plenty power. i recently took dash off and took apart and cleaned  all wire connections. put another solenoid in and another interlock module i had from a parts tractor. i will try this to see if it dies. then i am going to try another carb on a later occasion if this doesnt work. and after that i am going to check stator which i had checked a good while ago and was fine then. not sure if a rectifier can cause dying stalling

Edited by reyzorguy
more to add

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MARK (LI)
On 5/24/2017 at 8:41 PM, reyzorguy said:

i have the entire rebuild kit with both needles, bowl gasket, welch plug etc. i only used the correct fit needle. the needle tip may be plastic or composite but i think the needle SEAT is metal.. did your kohler 12.5 stagger and stall after 20-30 minutes. i have two corresponding valve seats i may need to install the correct one for my needle, they appear to be plastic. the directions say to install  the matching valve seat but make no mention of removing the old one was your old seat  hard to remove?   ty   bob

i just had a thought, perhaps the needle is not seating  properly and then not shutting of the fuel off causing a flooding condition. 

Actually the needle is metal   the end is a different material    when I replaced the carb 4 years ago I held onto the old one that I removed...when I recently got the rebuild kit the old needle slid right out and the smaller of the 2 that came in the kit was the one that fit right in...so installed at and it ran fine...then I pulled out the old carb and that needle did require a little coaxing to remove it   it was the thicker one that fit this carb.

There is a youtube for rebuilding this carb and the guy says that if you pull out the welch plug and it is dirty in there that you probably need a new carb...they are somewhat expensive...I hope you get it working

 

And yes that is exactly the way mine was performing, except it started to act up a little quicker that 20 minutes

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reyzorguy
12 hours ago, MARK (LI) said:

Actually the needle is metal   the end is a different material    when I replaced the carb 4 years ago I held onto the old one that I removed...when I recently got the rebuild kit the old needle slid right out and the smaller of the 2 that came in the kit was the one that fit right in...so installed at and it ran fine...then I pulled out the old carb and that needle did require a little coaxing to remove it   it was the thicker one that fit this carb.

There is a youtube for rebuilding this carb and the guy says that if you pull out the welch plug and it is dirty in there that you probably need a new carb...they are somewhat expensive...I hope you get it working

 

And yes that is exactly the way mine was performing, except it started to act up a little quicker that 20 minutes

i got the rebuild kit without valve seat. part # 12 757 03 s(thought it came with it)    the one with seat is 20 521 02 s.  if the changes i made (solenoid, interlock module, etc) dont help then ill get kit with valve seat i suppose. i have access to a carb for my unit i can borrow to test before the rebuild which i may do first. i also read where a units alternator/stator would heat up then short out the ground causing it to die. as it cooled again it the windings would shrink and stop the shorting and it would run again. this was a different model simplicity so who knows.

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steve-wis

I would check the valve clearances.  As the valves wear, the clearances get closer, or tighter.  And when the engine warms, the clearances change.  If they get too close, they will be in running range when cold but not when hot.  I had this on a briggs, it drove me crazy until I found it.

 

Steve

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reyzorguy
7 hours ago, steve-wis said:

I would check the valve clearances.  As the valves wear, the clearances get closer, or tighter.  And when the engine warms, the clearances change.  If they get too close, they will be in running range when cold but not when hot.  I had this on a briggs, it drove me crazy until I found it.

 

Steve

i will do that ... thanks

today i tried mowing after having made changes described earlier here. it ran for 25-30 minutes then died. it died as i was going up a hill in my yard. may be coincidence but seems to happen that way, but again i encounter a hill on most runs as i cut going up/down rather across for stability. when it died i tried starting fluid twice and it ran each time till starting fluid was used up. (few seconds). this makes me think its carburetor or fuel delivery. although a weak spark  may cause it to die and the starting  fluids increased combustion may let it run with a weak spark. maybe? i did try loosening the fuel cap initially but no help there. the engine didnt seem excessively hot to touch but when spraying the starting fluid in carb the heat there made a hissing. normal i would think? i will see if i can borrow my neighbors carb for a trial run next. that may tell me something. (same carb on hers). if that doesnt fix it then i will adjust valves. 

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