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Woodydel

RUST---HOW TO REALLY GET RID OF IT--

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Woodydel
Please take a look at the pictures below. This sample is a repair panel for my Forward Control Jeep trucks as I received it from the seller from which I manufacture fiberglas replicas. Prior to priming all rust must be removed. Click on each photo for full size view. This is what my parts look like when I totally remove rust from any part. Notice I said remove rust. No conversion to some other crud left on the part. Notice there are small holes at the bottom of view "Z". Those holes are nuts welded onto the panel and you cannot see it but the rust is gone from the threads. Also notice the twisted wire. No rust even in the smallest spaces. In its present state no flash rust will form on the part for 10 days with the treatment I put on the part after removal of the rust. Let me know what you think. Interested?....X
Click Here for Full Size Picture Click Here for Full Size Picture Click Here for Full Size Picture
Click Here for Full Size Picture Click Here for Full Size Picture
Here is my hand in my chemicals. http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?src=/PhotoLoft/Asset19/2002/03/19/9145/9145687_0_5902.fpx,0,0,1,1,512,384,FFFFFF

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StinKy
Yeah, Woody. Im struggling along up here with a grinder & elbow grease. As pictured it would HAVE to be a safe chemical cause nasty stuff seems to jump on me like I'm a magnet! Did you whip this stuff up or is it some commercial product? Dick

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StinKy
Sure, Woody, I'll "bite," as I am one of those poor, misguided souls who has actually had the temerity to recommend products like Extend, which convert the rust "... to some other crud left on the part...." I only use Extend because it works pretty well, for what my needs are, generally, i.e., less than a "Pebble Beach" concours-quality restoration. Apparently there's a better way--looks great--do tell!

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ka9bxg
Don't they use salt where you live ? most cars and trucks have holes in them by time they are 8 years old here in wisconsin They put the salt on so thick that there are piles on the road.Bob I do like the looks of your project tho.Are most of them 4*4

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Woodydel
Hello Cleanbee, My solution will not remove the base metal no matter how long it is contact with the rusted or formerly rusted part. And I don't care about planes...You are jumping to conclusions and you don't know how to take off the rust either...I do...That's what counts...Also a scientist would not base anything upon a picture displayed over the internet...It is not poisonous any more than water is dangerous unless you are drowning or in a flood...I would call the school and get some of my money back...And the name at the moment is .....MadManX

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CleanBee
Wow You really sound p.o.'ed at me. Sorry, good luck with this. My seven years of college is only a waste in your eyes though. I have been an asset to my country, business and to science. Equations that I have founded are being used to protect and advance our country. I understand and respect your creative thinking, but unfortunately you have not presented a formitable case. I was only trying to help you and others understand what occurs when doing what you have described. I will keep my mouth shut from now on. Dan

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Woodydel
I'm not presenting a case. All I want is for you and/or everyone else to look at the pictures and tell me what you think. If anyone is even slightly similar to me you will go nuts over this. I'm not going to tell anyone how it works or what it is. I also don't expect anyone here to find a need to circumvent my simple presentation. I will be taking rust off in NY and wanted to know if anyone here is interested in taking rust off without the traditional failed methods. Have you ever gone to a car restoration site? The etching primers they use after they have acid dipped their cars is so dangerous that the intelligent people applying it wear every type of protection known to mankind to avoid cancer or death. Leave your car too long in the dip and you come out with a stump at both ends. I was answering the hypothesis that removing corrosion from aluminum is an extension of rust removal. It's not.. The "trigger"? The words "hog wash" were challenging. However, I never even came close to being P.O.'d. If I say you "could" drink something, I DO NOT mean to get the glass and take a swig. I mean this, if you work with this solution and then eat your sandwich with some on you hand YOU WILL NOT DIE. That's it...MadManX P.S. Dan, You can push at me, don't give in just because I push back..

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Woodydel
MadManX: Gov. Hugh Carey (a horse's posterior, IMHO) SUGGESTED one could drink a glass of PCB-laden transformer oil, apparently in an attempt to illustrate that the PCB-polluted State Office Bldg. in Binghamton, NY (constuction cost: $6 mil. Cleanup costs, last I knew: $18 mil.) was safe. I can tell you that YEARS later, like a dozen (?) much of the building was still unusable. I'm not aware of someone actually drinking PCB's, however. Is this what you are referring to? Peter

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Woodydel
C'mon, Dan, don't go away mad.... If everybody felt that way after Woody, er, the contrarian formerly known as "Woody," insulted them, there'd be no one left on the Board! Look how he's insulted me, just in this thread, (and it's not the first time), and he's not even correct. AND all I am guilty of is praising him, and trying to clue him into a more profitable market (aviation) for his product (admittedly, assuming it does work on aluminum--obviously only he knows for sure). MadManX might not be aware that new models of [virtually unchanged] Gen. Aviation planes (single-engine Cessnas, Beeches, etc.) which are still flying after 50 years are now selling on the high side of $250,000.00--500,000.00, such that "melting down" old planes is neither economically feasible nor necessary. (With that kind of pricing, you can do a lot of "restoration" and remain profitable). A product like his, if FAA-certified, could just be the final link in his financial plans for World Domination--Forward Control Jeeps for ALL! But seriously, Dan, I for one would love to hear from you, and wish I knew more scientists--you'd be the first! So please, try to do what I do, i.e., appreciate MadManX's often very funny insights, sometimes self-deprecating humor, and try to ignore the insulting, unwarranted, sometimes incorrect attacks he seems to periodically need to launch on people, regardless of whether they come bearing gifts or not. Look at Doc Savage, er, Dutch--he seems impervious to these assaults. So stick around, Dan, I for one appreciate your knowledge and insights, and I just met you. Peter

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StinKy
Woody, it's hard to offer opinions on something we havent used much less seen.......if it's just what you say it is there is enough rust in this club to make you at least a minor hero! What kind of prices we talkin about for freedom from rust?? Dick

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Woodydel
That's a good comment Brent the stuff my hand is in is totally safe. If I wanted to I could safely drink it though it tastes pretty bad with the rust in it. How safe is it? I did that piece in my kitchen. Not that I had to but so I could say so. I figure the pictures are worth 6000 words. I'm expecting amazement. Sort of like a marketing study to determine whether I should market the product or offer a service. I was expecting "WOW". I'm also thinking people like sanding, wire brushing, sand blasting, coating, converting, repainting rust throughs and finally giving up by believing the rust is gone. Tentatively, you can get rid of rust for less than sandblasting without the side effects. Remember Dutch's warning a few posts back? Nine responses to the pictures seems pretty slim to me...X

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CarlH
Woody: Quit your day job! If this product is all you say it is, (fantastically effective, economical and nontoxic), and you own it, it's time to speak to the Patent Board, hire a marketing company, etc..., and retire. Just don't do those late night "miracle oil/polish" infomercials w/ the frenetic English guys, ok? And you have to throw a tractor bash for all of us every year--several, actually, in different locations. Just because. (A "bachelor party-type" tractor bash, if you know what I mean. While it may be a burden for me, I will commit to making myself available to help select the "talent" for these "tractor meets"). How does it work on aluminum? The average age of the airliner fleet is somewhere between O-L-D and "thanks, I'll take the bus." Thermal and pressure cycles alone cause planes to open up like twisted Pringles cans. I'm sure if you got it certified by the FAA (expensive and time consuming, no doubt) you could sell it for 400% more than you were prepared to 2 minutes ago. "WOW," Woody, I mean, I am very curious. I would elevate your proposed future status in this club from "minor hero" directly to "mad genius/patron saint" which, incidentally, might account for any colorful mental behaviors you may, from time to time, exhibit. (Insert witty tag line here:) Peter

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Woodydel
BigSix, it takes off rust. Do planes rust? It won't do anything to aluminum. You can use it on:Chrome Paint Aluminum Brass Copper Nickel Stainless Glass Rubber Plastic Porcelain and Enamel...MadmanX oooh I like that. Kent, can I change my name or rather should I change my name?

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Woodydel
Yes, Woody...at the risk of offending you (which might make two of us) I know we're talking about rust. Which is c-o-r-r-o-s-i-o-n. Which, as I understand it, is the o-x-i-d-a-t-i-o-n of the particular material in question, in your case, steel. Yes, aluminum planes DO "rust," in that they corrode, they oxidize. When steel rusts, it converts to an iron oxide, I believe. Aluminum also oxidizes under severe conditions so, not having a background in chemistry here, I'll go out on a limb--aluminum does "rust," in that it oxidizes, which DOES cause it to become weak, and ultimately, to fail. I'm quite serious here. Apparently, the skins of jetliners are VERY thin--I forget the dimension, but it's measured in thousandths, I believe. I can also tell you, from being an aviation "buff," that the General Aviation fleet (small, private airplanes), have issued FAA bulletins (or whatever their term is) warning against corrosion ("rusting" of the aluminum) in certain models, requiring ex$pen$ive disassembly to INSPECT and CORRECT. So when you say "It won't do anything to aluminum...", I wonder, have you tried it on an oxidized piece of aluminum? If it removes oxidation, (from steel) I'm wondering why it wouldn't remove oxidation (from aluminum)? It bears mentioning that we are used to seeing heavy aluminum castings, like intake manifolds, which are so thick, a little corrosion doesn't matter. But most of airplane construction involves thin skin, which takes much less corrosion to become compromised.... And in small, enclosed spaces, it may never dry out, unlike an intake manifold. Planes that have been down in jungles, and rediscovered years later, were found, in fact, to "tear" with ease, and it has been noted that aluminum does do something very similar to "rusting" under certain conditions. I believe when you see the whitish haze and deposits over bare aluminum parts, that that is the oxidation we're talking about here. My point in my suggestion was, the small spaces in airplanes can have the kind of severe, moist conditions which cause them to corrode. The floats on sea planes (think saltwater, here, especially) constantly leak, and are enclosed, and cost many thousands of dollars. Seaplanes themselves, especially those in saltwater duty, are prone to potentially dangerous corrosion, particularly in the small spaces in the tail area. I wasn't kidding, or mistaken, as far as I know, about the need for a miracle process to remove corrosion from aluminum. Would you like my address, so you can send the royalty checks directly to my home? Peter

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