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npalen

Pull Starting a 720, 4040, 4041 or Powermax

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npalen

I realize you normally can't pull start a hydro but my friend is needing to get his started and moved in spite of a bad starter.  It has a tiller on the back which is sitting on the ground and wondering , with enough weight on the tiller, if it could be pull started by energizing the pto clutch to turn the engine? 

The question of safety switches came up and wondering if just the starter circuit or also the ignition circuit is killed when a pto switch is on with the Simplicity.  Thanks in advance for any help.

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720nut

Never heard of anyone trying but if you don't probably never know.

I would be real curious now that you asked, usually just pull motor and replace starter

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Talntedmrgreen

Only the starter circuit is impacted.  Seems like the idea is a stretch, but Im hoping you try it and let us know!  Have you applied power to the starter directly?  Is this a CCKB or CCKA?

CCKB lead from the ignition is tough to see or feel below the starter but you can cut the wire where its visible near the clutch.  Apply 12v and if the starter is good it will spin the motor. The lead you can see easily is hot from the battery...make sure you have 12v there or your battery is dead.  

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npalen
1 hour ago, Talntedmrgreen said:

Only the starter circuit is impacted.  Seems like the idea is a stretch, but Im hoping you try it and let us know!  Have you applied power to the starter directly?  Is this a CCKB or CCKA?

CCKB lead from the ignition is tough to see or feel below the starter but you can cut the wire where its visible near the clutch.  Apply 12v and if the starter is good it will spin the motor. The lead you can see easily is hot from the battery...make sure you have 12v there or your battery is dead.  

Not sure which engine it is.  

Another way to do it.  (I guess:))

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae_4it5gJJg

Go to the 7:15 mark in the video to see the action.

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720nut

Seeing is believing , I'ld never have thought of trying. Wondering how fast it would turn engine? I suppose at 3800

Still think I would try a jumper wire to solenoid first much simpler, I have small wire with alligator clips and used long needle nose pliers to reach terminal.

A lot of times people think starter is bad but really the PTO swithes are bad and won't allow starter to turn

Granted this engine is out of tractor but just thought it would give you an idea of where to connect jumper wire

DSCN1854.JPG

Edited by 720nut

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jlasater

In my case, the Bendix gear on the starter needed to be oiled. The starter worked fine, but it would only engage the flywheel about 1 in 4 tries.

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720nut

 

On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 10:43 PM, jlasater said:

Make a hand crank that will fit in the rear PTO?

Not to sure you would be able to turn it by hand.

 Think I'ld just get a new starter, guys are saying that they've found new ones but I have yet to see any

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CTD01

Id be intrested to see it work. It doesn't matter that it is a hydro since by stepping on the clutch will disengage the pump. The pto shaft has nothing to do with the hydro. Its a gear set that runs thru the trans. Best bet would be to put tractor  in neutral turn key on to engage the pto and have someone step on the clutch while someone else pulls it.

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tadams

Check to see if there isn't a control on the hydro to make it free wheeling. If the gear transmission drive directly to the wheels you will be ok taking it out of gear by if the hydro is between the transmission and the rear end then you need to disengage the hydro to make it free wheeling.

Tom

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isetta

Funny I had considered the same technique with tiller but got lucky and found the issue with starter circuit.  I had considered using a larger drill motor with pto adapter chucked in it to start the Powermax like they used to start Indy cars, maybe still do...

image.thumb.png.cfe6508bc789aefec1649364335c0dfa.png

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tadams

I sure wouldn't try a drill unless I had a override clutch assembly to use. When it started the drill would be run by the tractor and anyone hanging on could go flying.

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isetta
18 hours ago, tadams said:

I sure wouldn't try a drill unless I had a override clutch assembly to use. When it started the drill would be run by the tractor and anyone hanging on could go flying.

+ one to that and why we didn't try it.  The survival instinct is a good friendsm01

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720nut
18 hours ago, tadams said:

I sure wouldn't try a drill unless I had a override clutch assembly to use. When it started the drill would be run by the tractor and anyone hanging on could go flying.

I used to start a 1650 Suzuki I had in a pulling tractor with a starter similar to this one only had two handles and a short stub shaft as one pictured, never had a problem

You would have to have a short stub shaft or it would stick and you'ld be in a cast

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D-17_Dave
On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 1:51 PM, CTD01 said:

Stepping on the clutch is the only way to disengage the hydro pump.  With trans in neutral the pump will still be spinning unless you step on the clutch.

This style tractor you can place the transmision range selector into neutral and tow the tractor without any hydro engagement. 

As far as cranking, if no starter bypass is available simply turn ignition switch on and front pto and wrap a row around the pull and give it a hard pull. 

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