Repower a Newer Simplicity Sovereign with Predator Engine

[hootywampus]

Does anyone know of a bolt on "kit" to replace a 18hp Kohler Command engine on a Simplicity Sovereign with a 22hp Predator engine? Looking for someone who sells the mounting plate and drive shaft adapter.  I've seen the posts about this with the recommended parts. Just wondering if anyone has come up with a bolt on solution?

Thanks for the help, this is my first questions as I'm new to the forum.  Wish I joined a long time ago.  I need to get this mower back in running condition for my garden tilling next spring.  

Jared

 

 

[720nut]

WElcome to the club, you might check with Ken (Maxwood) he did a conversion

Edited November 19, 2017 by 720nut

[dhoadley]

Jared, Welcome to the asylum. I can't help you with your specific question, but if you do a forum search of "predator" I'll bet you find a bunch of useful info. More than a couple of members have documented this swap. Good luck, Dave

[jimmystractor]

Hi Jared,

Just wanted to throw something else out there to consider...

Have you at all considered just buying a running, used command and just doing a direct swap? Taking the old engine out and bolting in the new-to-you motor would probably take around an hour. This way you would not need to worry about finding a muffler that works, buying an old Triad mounting plate or the driveshaft adaptor.

 

Another option would be to be patient, be on the hunt and just buy a nice, used running sovereign. Then you could sell your roller or keep it for parts.

 

Just some other options...

[sliderxc]

What's wrong with the Kohler and do you want to sell it 

Thanks

[hootywampus]

3 hours ago, sliderxc said:

What's wrong with the Kohler and do you want to sell it 

Thanks

It started knocking and before it got bad I pulled it from the tractor.  It might just need a rebuild but I don't know for sure what it'll need.  I've just been contemplating a swap of some sorts.  A new command runs around 1700+ the predator is 700 so that's why I was looking to this route.  I'd be willing to sell it to offset the cost of anything.  

[hootywampus]

3 hours ago, jimmystractor said:

Hi Jared,

Just wanted to throw something else out there to consider...

Have you at all considered just buying a running, used command and just doing a direct swap? Taking the old engine out and bolting in the new-to-you motor would probably take around an hour. This way you would not need to worry about finding a muffler that works, buying an old Triad mounting plate or the driveshaft adaptor.

 

Another option would be to be patient, be on the hunt and just buy a nice, used running sovereign. Then you could sell your roller or keep it for parts.

 

Just some other options...

Thanks for the advise, I didn't consider this.  If I could find a good Kohler I'd be willing to use it.  Just looking for the most cost effective way to get it back up and running.  

 

[Alltractoredup]

Kohler commands were in many cub cadet models from 16hp-25hp and complete running tractors can be found for under $1000 usually pretty common. At least it would be a direct fit except some of the electrical connections may vary a little, but have same purpose in both tractors.

 With the Predator you will need to spend money and time adapting a driveshaft connection which could become spendy depending on your skills and resources.  Electrical challenges will be less with an engine out of a cub and no issues with exhaust either.  Sell whats left of the cub to recoup cost.

[sliderxc]

Hey Jared you can buy a rebuild kit on ebay for that motor for under 400.00 I did one for a friend as long as the crank and heads are good https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Kohler-Command-Engine-Rebuild-Kit-for-models-CV18-AND-CH18/381444474471?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 the guy is great to deal with 

Edited November 24, 2017 by sliderxc
add

[hootywampus]

30 minutes ago, sliderxc said:

Hey Jared you can buy a rebuild kit on ebay for that motor for under 400.00 I did one for a friend as long as the crank and heads are good https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Kohler-Command-Engine-Rebuild-Kit-for-models-CV18-AND-CH18/381444474471?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 the guy is great to deal with 

Thanks for the link!  I'm now leaning towards rebuilding or getting a used tractor with a running engine.  I'll keep you posted on what happens.  I love these tractors and the implements they can run/have.  It'll turn the garden to powder with the tiller, which is my favorite thing about them.  

More to come...

[ShaunE]

Heads are prone to warping on the CH engines without blowing head gaskets & they will lose valve seats.  If you go the rebuild route, at least have the heads checked by a reputable engine machine shop.  A leak down test will tell you a lot.  I would perform a compression test in conjunction with a leak down test before I did anything.

[PhanDad]

16 hours ago, ShaunE said:

Heads are prone to warping on the CH engines without blowing head gaskets & they will lose valve seats.  

Does this occur with normal operation ( not overheat or low oil, etc)?

If so, any preventive measures?

[hootywampus]

Found this gem on craigslist for 250 big ones!  I fell in and came out smelln' like roses.  Guy said it ran 18 months ago.  We'll see if that's still the case.  It has power steering which my old one doesn't.  Is it suppose to free wheel at the steering?  I'm guessing it doesn't work till it's running?  

Anyway this was my black Friday find and if the motor runs, I did pretty good.  

[jimmystractor]

If you can get that one running...you stole it. Even if you can't, you stole it. 

[midnightpumpkin]

In reply to your question;  "Is it suppose to free wheel at the steering?"

Normally you can steer the tractor with the engine not running. The steering valve acts as a hydraulic pump when the engine is not running. However, if the tractor sits for a long while, the oil in the system will drain back to the hydro unit and the steering wheel will free wheel. I would not be concerned about it at this point.

Nice score, hope you can get it running. As you know they are great tractors.

John U

[Chris727]

As far as the donor Cub Cadets go, it's not unheard of for them to sell for as little as $250. When I acquired my 75th Anniversary Sovereign, I found a Command that was only two years old off some piece of golf course equipment for only $125. Cost several hundred more to put the OEM muffler on it and correct screens and shrouds. 

[ShaunE]

23 hours ago, PhanDad said:

Does this occur with normal operation ( not overheat or low oil, etc)?

If so, any preventive measures?

Bill,

I sent you a PM regarding what I've learned about these engines though two dealers & one machine shop.

[PhanDad]

2 hours ago, ShaunE said:

Bill,

I sent you a PM regarding what I've learned about these engines though two dealers & one machine shop.

Thanks 

[720nut]

Yeap stole that one , nice find 

[rich_kildow]

Is that the one that was posted here?  The power steering setup alone could recoup most, if not all, of your cost if all else fails.  Well done!

[jimmystractor]

1 hour ago, rich_kildow said:

Is that the one that was posted here?  The power steering setup alone could recoup most, if not all, of your cost if all else fails.  Well done!

I wondered that also. But the one the OP bought looks much cleaner. Also, the other one in the ebay/Craig's section is still on Craigslist. 

[wwbragg]

Is this something you can use???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Deere-318-Predator-Engine-Coupler-kit/302357020764?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D018b8d3b31ea4e898d98c70befc3b3bd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D302357429867&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m2219

[gwiseman]

On 11/24/2017 at 4:25 PM, hootywampus said:

Found this gem on craigslist for 250 big ones!  I fell in and came out smelln' like roses.  Guy said it ran 18 months ago.  We'll see if that's still the case.  It has power steering which my old one doesn't.  Is it suppose to free wheel at the steering?  I'm guessing it doesn't work till it's running?  

Anyway this was my black Friday find and if the motor runs, I did pretty good.  

Jared, you got yourself a deal! Yep, "free wheel" is normal and you'll be glad you have the ps. Welcome and keep those updates coming. 

[B112_son]

Though it’s cleaner looks like the one in the Ebay/craigslist section. Has the same bad rear wheel. And he’s close enough to get. 

Im curious how you got a hold of the seller. I tried emailing several times with no response. 

[B112_son]

On the path of a new engine from your original post there is a John Deere L130 by me with a 23hp command and bad rear end for $150. Not sure what it would take to put the 23hp in a sovereign but I know it’s a good motor.