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jackcobb

Starter / Generator Keeps Frying

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jackcobb

Help! I've run out of ideas. I bought this B-212 awhile back. Wanted to restore it, but first  used it some before I started to ensure everything worked properly. Went to two plow days with it, worked great. Painted it. Turned out very nice. Sent starter generator off to Classic Generators in the restoration process and it came back looking like new. Went to my first plow day all painted up and made 1 round. It quit charging (starting side has always worked great). Sent gen back along with regulator. Reg. checked out good and rebuilt Starter /Generator again. Put it on, polarized it and everything looked good. Took it out and spread fertilizer on my yard. After 15 minutes it quit charging again. Sent it back again, brushes fried. Our plan, change ignition switch which I did. Started it up, charged fine for about 15 minutes. Fried again. And I walked away from this tractor for 5 years now. Now retired, I'm tackling it again . Two things I have found last week and repaired. (1) The neutral safety switch harness from ignition switch, under cowl back to the switch and back was cut (under cowl) clear through the insulation and wires were touching. (2) The headlight harness wire back to the rear work light on the seat pan was pinched in the seat to frame pivot bracket. In all of this, neither the headlight harness fuse nor the tractors main wiring fuse has ever blown. Any thoughts??? I have taken the Starter Generator and Regulator today to a very reputable local shop. The regulator checked out ok. He'll tackle the generator next week. Thanks!!

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Chris727

One of the bigger problems I find with these Generators is the nylon isolator around the terminal posts deteriorate over time and melt down from getting the starter hot from long cranking periods. This can result in a short from the positive cable from the solenoid to the "A" terminal contacting the starter housing directly. 

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PhanDad

And now a brain drizzle.

I seem to remember that you need a specific voltage regulator for the tractor S/G; one that limits charging amps which is different than the regulator used with old car generators that look basically the same but aren't.

I would think the shop would be aware.

Please let us know what the problem turns out to be.

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jackcobb

Well bad news. Gen shop only charged $25 to fix generator. That was nice. 👏👏 But even after replacing frayed switch to solinoid wire, new headlight switch and a new eye on solinoid to gen wire, it fried again. And this time unlike the times before , it didn’t even try to charge .  So, taking a break for Christmas and get back at it Tuesday.

2EDDE4DF-A843-4B65-B433-C59290161B34.jpeg

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wwbragg

Zippo Varga is to Simplicities as John Muir was to Volkswagens (i.e. the VW idiots guide).  He makes everything very simple but very concise.  Here is a link to his video on voltage regulator testing/repair.

 

 

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GregB

Here's a link to an in depth article that was written years ago:

https://simpletractors.com/articles.html/articles/electrical-systems/troubleshooting-the-briggs-starter-generator-system-r14/

A quote from it is below:

“If the regulator contacts stick and keep the F term grounded at all times [called full fielded] the SG overheats and the generator field burns out.  We replace these commonly. NOTE: If they are burned out most commonly the regulator caused it. HAVE IT CHECKED HOOKED UP TO THE STARTER GENERATOR!!! “

Make sure the regulator is a current limiting style and is checked together with the S/G.

 

 

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jackcobb
15 hours ago, BLT said:

Did you have the regulator bench tested with the regulator?  The guy the does my work does both. Ever hear of M-J Electric Milwaukee? 

http://milwaukeestarter-alternator.com/

 

 

I took them both to Berger Electric. He tested them both as I stood there when I dropped them off. Volt Reg tested good. And I left them both there. I’m having a local automotive man stop by next week and just double check my wiring. The wiring is SO simple, and I’ve retraced it against the book and a real clear “before paint” picture. But now I’m second guessing everything. The one thing I’ve noticed from the before paint picture is that the solinoid is NEW. It is not the one that was on the tractor before paint. Could a coil in a solinoid go bad and cause a dead short like this?  It does start Tractor though. Since starter switch has been replaced, replacing solinoid and voltage regulator is about all I can think to try next??!

Edited by jackcobb

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jackcobb

I have polarized it all 5 times it has fried. The other 4 times, it worked for a period of time. Charged perfect for several minutes. But each time, it has lasted less and less. This time it quit right away.

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jackcobb

Update: Picked up the Start/Gen along with a new voltage regulator yesterday from the repair shop. Start/Gen took a new field coil. But after researching the regulator, like a couple of you hinted, it was not the right regulator. According to Berger Electrics books on the start/Gen, it calls for  7-8 amp Regulator. The one that was on it was a 15amp. Pictures of the tractor before paint showed an old looking regulator. This 15 amp looked brand new. Not sure 🤔 how that happened. So with the new 7-8Amp mounted  I polarized it, fired it up and it charged perfect. Started out about 7 Amps backing down to about 2 Amps in 2 or 3 minutes. But I did notice it ran pretty hot. Never paid attention to that fact before. So I called the repair shop and asked if that’s normal. They said yes, start/ Gen’s run hot. I have a Homelite T with the same setup. Fired it up, and it ran pretty hot also, to the hand touch. And I found this in a forum tonight........Enclosed type generators have no cooling fans and therfore are designed to run hot.

Excerpt from: Delco-Remy Motor-Generator Brochure No. DR 9626 states: In-Part:

"Enclosed units are designed to operate at frame temperatures from 225 Degrees F to 250 Degrees F, which is considerably hotter then the hand can stand."

Source: My copy of the 1966 Bolens Service School booklet.

So apparently this is normal. However it also warns about hard starting heat damaging to the starter. Should wait a couple minutes between starting attempts to allow the starter/generator to cool off.

 

So, I hope 🤞 this thing is finally fixed!!

Edited by jackcobb
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