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Simplicity725

Simplicity 725 Spark problem

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Simplicity725

Hello all,

So my 1963 Simplicity 725 suddenly has no spark. I used/drove it around for awhile, then parked it and when I went to put it back in the barn that afternoon it wouldn't start. Some quick diagnostics revealed that it had no spark. How does this happen....? I tinkered with it for a while, sanding the points and readjusting the gap etc etc, checking all the grounds for the wiring, testing the spark plug (it was fine), and stuff like that. If any of y'all have any tips or tricks, please let me know. I'm at a total loss with this one.

Thanks in advance,

Simplicity725

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ShaunE
19 hours ago, Simplicity725 said:

Hello all,

So my 1963 Simplicity 725 suddenly has no spark. I used/drove it around for awhile, then parked it and when I went to put it back in the barn that afternoon it wouldn't start. Some quick diagnostics revealed that it had no spark. How does this happen....? I tinkered with it for a while, sanding the points and readjusting the gap etc etc, checking all the grounds for the wiring, testing the spark plug (it was fine), and stuff like that. If any of y'all have any tips or tricks, please let me know. I'm at a total loss with this one.

Thanks in advance,

Simplicity725

Is your engine a Model 19 or a 19D?

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ShaunE

Hopefully someone will jump in soon besides me.  The 19 has a coil that is located under the flywheel & is NLA.  Aside from re-adjusting the points , possible replacing them & condenser & triple checking all the wiring, I'm not sure what to tell you.  You could also try an Atom type ignition module to rule out the points & condenser.

This is the perfect question for BLT.  Hopefully he will see this soon.

Edited by ShaunE

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Simplicity725
22 minutes ago, ShaunE said:

Hopefully someone will jump in soon besides me.  The 19 has a coil that is located under the flywheel & is NLA.  Aside from re-adjusting the points , possible replacing them & condenser & triple checking all the wiring, I'm not sure what to tell you.  You could also try an Atom type ignition module to rule out the points & condenser.

I’ve been thinking about going to an electronic ignition system but I’m not sure how to go about finding the right module......any ideas?

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wwbragg
22 minutes ago, ShaunE said:

The 19 has a coil that is located under the flywheel & is NLA

Model 19 coils are available on ebay and from Amazon.  I bought one about a year ago and installed it only to find I had low compression.  Run a compression test before you do anything to decide how far you want to go with repairs.

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wwbragg
11 minutes ago, Simplicity725 said:

Ielectronic ignition ideas

The magneto on a model 19 is different from anything you have ever seen.  The magnets are not in the flywheel like you are probably used to.  And like I said previously, make sure your engine is worth the trouble.  Mine was not and I replaced it with a Harbor Freight Predator 13 HP.

Edited by wwbragg
spelling

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Simplicity725
3 hours ago, wwbragg said:

The magneto on a model 19 is different from anything you have ever seen.  The magnets are not in the flywheel like you are probably used to.  And like I said previously, make sure your engine is worth the trouble.  Mine was not and I replaced it with a Harbor Freight Predator 13 HP.

 

3 hours ago, wwbragg said:

The magneto on a model 19 is different from anything you have ever seen.  The magnets are not in the flywheel like you are probably used to.  And like I said previously, make sure your engine is worth the trouble.  Mine was not and I replaced it with a Harbor Freight Predator 13 HP.

My model 19 is setup very differently than that.....there is a coil above the flywheel, and there are magnets on the flywheel and it works like a modern electronic ignition but it still has points. Wires are run from the top of the coil pack through the flywheel backing plate and to the points and condenser as well as the ignition switch. What’s the deal? Is this a conversion someone did? My model 14 has the setup you are referring to, but the model 19 in my 1962 Simplicity and the model 19 in my 1963 Simplicity both have the setup I just described. Any thoughts?

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Simplicity725
1 hour ago, ShaunE said:

Found this which is an interesting read.

https://www.gasenginemagazine.com/gas-engines/Cheap-Fix

That’s fascinating. It sounds like it’s a good trick, but that won’t work on my setup. The model 19 that I have doesn’t have the circular coil behind the flywheel. It has a modern looking coil that sits on top of the flywheel and corresponds with magnets on the outside of the flywheel. (something you’d find on a newer engine with electronic ignition but this engine still has points. Wires are run through the backing plate behind the flywheel to the breaker points and condenser as well as the ignition switch) Any thoughts on this?

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Simplicity725
3 hours ago, wwbragg said:

The magneto on a model 19 is different from anything you have ever seen.  The magnets are not in the flywheel like you are probably used to.  And like I said previously, make sure your engine is worth the trouble.  Mine was not and I replaced it with a Harbor Freight Predator 13 HP.

Is it a pain to swap in a predator? I mean you’d have to fabricate new motor mounts and an adapter to mate the flywheel with the driveshaft.

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wwbragg
1 hour ago, Simplicity725 said:

Is it a pain to swap in a predator?

Now that it is over, I can say it was a piece of cake but those are probably not the words I was using at the time.  Check out the process at 

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/58197-flywheel-adaptor/

The mounting plate was two 1/2 inch flat bars topped with a 3/8 inch sheet.  The trick is in aligning it up with the driveshaft.  PM to me if you have questions.  

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Simplicity725
27 minutes ago, wwbragg said:

Now that it is over, I can say it was a piece of cake but those are probably not the words I was using at the time.  Check out the process at 

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/58197-flywheel-adaptor/

The mounting plate was two 1/2 inch flat bars topped with a 3/8 inch sheet.  The trick is in aligning it up with the driveshaft.  PM to me if you have questions.  

I’m going to do a little more digging around to see if I can resurrect the old Briggs, but if not, then I’m almost positive I’ll go the Predator route. It looks like a fairly simple swap.

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wwbragg
4 hours ago, Simplicity725 said:

there is a coil above the flywheel

If the coil is outside of the flywheel, you should be able to convert to an electronic (point-less) ignition with little or no trouble.

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Simplicity725
40 minutes ago, wwbragg said:

If the coil is outside of the flywheel, you should be able to convert to an electronic (point-less) ignition with little or no trouble.

That’s probably the way I’ll go then. How do I go about finding the right electronic ignition coil?

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wwbragg

I'd start by first identifying the one presently on the motor.  Then ask google or ebay for the electronic equivalent.  Somebody in this forum will probably have that information as well. Keep us posted.

PS:  Seams like I read something on this site somewhere that the EI fires differently than points so there might be a timing issue but it is still a manageable modification.

Edited by wwbragg
PS:

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Simplicity725
32 minutes ago, wwbragg said:

I'd start by first identifying the one presently on the motor.  Then ask google or ebay for the electronic equivalent.  Somebody in this forum will probably have that information as well. Keep us posted.

PS:  Seams like I read something on this site somewhere that the EI fires differently than points so there might be a timing issue but it is still a manageable modification.

Thanks for all your help and advice. We’ll see how well this will work. If it all works out, it will be far less of a pain in the neck than the points ignition.

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powerking_one

Your ignition coil is almost 100% guaranteed to be shot. This was/is a major problem with these old B&S Magna-Matic ignition systems/coils breaking down. Just order a new aftermarket one of Flea- Bay for like $20.00 (PN 290880)..

 

Tom (PK)

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fishnwiz

Use caution in running plug wire on these aftermarket coils. I did a replacement of a coil like this engine several years ago and came to find out that the quality of the rubber plug wire on the aftermarket coils was very prone to melting if not routed away from any type of heat source. ...causing the plug wire to short against the engine and causing no spark symptoms. 

Edited by fishnwiz

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Simplicity725
9 hours ago, fishnwiz said:

Use caution in running plug wire on these aftermarket coils. I did a replacement of a coil like this engine several years ago and came to find out that the quality of the rubber plug wire on the aftermarket coils was very prone to melting if not routed away from any type of heat source. ...causing the plug wire to short against the engine and causing no spark symptoms. 

Thanks I’ll keep that in mind.

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Simplicity725
20 hours ago, powerking_one said:

Your ignition coil is almost 100% guaranteed to be shot. This was/is a major problem with these old B&S Magna-Matic ignition systems/coils breaking down. Just order a new aftermarket one of Flea- Bay for like $20.00 (PN 290880)..

 

Tom (PK)

Thanks for the part number.....I’m trying to find the electronic ignition version. It seems like a much simpler setup.

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tadams

Did you check all your wires for bare spots and your ingitions switch to make sure it isn't bad. I had one once that I pulled three times it would bench test and run and when I put it in the tractor no spark and it was a bare spot on a wire where you could hardly see it. That was 10 years ago and it still runs good.

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Simplicity725
On 1/7/2018 at 11:36 AM, powerking_one said:

Your ignition coil is almost 100% guaranteed to be shot. This was/is a major problem with these old B&S Magna-Matic ignition systems/coils breaking down. Just order a new aftermarket one of Flea- Bay for like $20.00 (PN 290880)..

 

Tom (PK)

Haha I just checked that part number and that’s for the magento setup that sits behind the flywheel. Mine has magnets on the flywheel and a coil mounted above it. Thanks anyway 

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wwbragg
On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 11:34 AM, Simplicity725 said:

magnets on the flywheel

Are you sure you have a model 19?????  The model should be stamped on the fan shroud.

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