Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

I want to convert AC912 over to sundstrand hyd lift system


klingra

Recommended Posts

I want to convert a AC912 tractor over to hydraulic lift system. I have a Simplicity 7117 parts tractor which has a hyd lift system on it. The parts tractor is basically only the back half. I would like to take the lift cylinder, hoses, valve, steel tubing off of 7117 and put those parts on the AC912. I want to use the current sundstrand pump unit that is already on the AC912 tractor. My Question is - Do I have to do anything to the sundstrand unit on the AC912, other than remove the plugs and install the hyd fittings to deliver the hyd fluid to the hyd valve? Do I have to change out any relief valves or remove - install any plugs? The AC912 tractor has a manual hand lift system on it. Any info, advice or expertise on this subject will help myself and other members. Thank You   

Edited by klingra
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a topic on the conversion written by RHubbard, search for it.

 

There are springs and washers needing moved also.

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You will also need to drill a hole for the lift handle, and either find/buy a sleeve bushing, or weld in a sleeve for the handle shaft.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Guys - this is exactly what I was looking for. I may change out the whole Sundstrand unit or just the small parts specified. If anyone has any further advice, I'm all ears

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, klingra said:

I may change out the whole Sundstrand unit or just the small parts specified. If anyone has any further advice, I'm all ears

Many ways to go on this one.  Most important is the shape of the donor rear end.  And does the donor include the BGB, cone clutch, and sideplates?  

If the donor is complete and in good shape from the BGB back, I'd swap out the rear ends.  It's a relatively easy swap and if it turns out it was a bad move, then it's easy to go to a more complicated transplant (and you know what the issues are with the donor components).  

If the BGB isn't part of the donor tractor, I'd consider swapping just the hydro motor if you know it's good or moving the "small parts" .  The reason I wouldn't swap just the complete tranny is I'm not a fan on messing with the cone clutch if it's working and it would have to come off to swap just the tranny - IMO there's not way to lift and rotate a complete tranny for the left axle hub to clear the side plate.

If your donor tractor has the swivel type elbows on the pump, I'd swap the "small parts".  On an early hydro lift install I did, the donor had fixed elbows and they couldn't be screwed in without taking the charge pump off.  I didn't want to do this, so I bought the newer swivel type fittings that came on later tractors.  They look like this:

 IMG_4821.thumb.jpg.f15f5531eedb8b6264d6f57df9b16ae4.jpg

Unfortunately, like many Simplicity parts these days, they cost a fortune (part#1675789, $28.60 at Jack's).  I don't know if a similar part is available somewhere else.   And maybe removing the charge pump isn't that big of a deal so it would be easy to install the non-swivel fittings.  

Hopefully others will give their opinions.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your current hydro pump holds pressure when off, stay with that known rather than the unknown of the replacement pump.

As these hydros age they lose the ability to hold pressure, the result is drifting backwards on a slope.

So if you current hydro pump does not allow the tractor to drift backwards, I would say move all the small parts and be done with it.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the old non-swivel hyd. fittings, so I will have remove the charge pump, if I go the parts route. My tractor does drift backwards on an incline. The donor tractor (7117) does not look as good as my tractor, which is an (AC 912H) with replacement 18 hp twin Magnum engine. I do have the 7117 rear out of the donor tractor. I may just put the whole donor Sundstrand hydro pump-hyd drive motor unit onto the AC 912H transmission.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I'm half way to completion. BTW I am going with the small parts swap way. I have the Sundstrand small pump parts removed from donor sundstrand unit and installed into the AC912H sundstrand unit. I put a hose loop onto the AC912H sundstrand unit to make tractor usable until I get the misc. hyd lines, hyd valve and hoses put on. the pic will explain what I mean by a temporary hose loop. As you can see a sundstrand unit is mounted on the transmission with just 3 bolts.

 

20180129_193458.jpg

20180129_193535.jpg

20180129_193624.jpg

20180129_193814.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Well I got project completed about a week ago. The hardest part was welding in the tube bushing pivot point for the left hand hyd lift control handle. I also had to remove the hand lift rockshaft out of AC912H and replace it with the hyd rock shaft out of the Simplicity 7117 donor tractor. Who would believe that they had two different rockshafts for the same series tractors. One rockshaft for the hand or electric lift models, And one rockshaft for the hydraulic lift models. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those swivel hydraulic fittings mentioned by Phan Dad above:  Part # 1675789, $28.60 at Jack's.  They leak, especially the supply fitting, which must resist a pressure of as much as 800 psi.  Worse, they're made in China, which IMO, explains the thinking behind the poor manufacturing standards.  As to the cost being a "fortune", that is a hard one to call on any other basis than personal opinion.  I've gotten tothe point where I absorb those costs since there's little other alternative, if one's time has any value.  Anyhow...

From my 20/20 hindsight department, I just typed in:

msc swivel elbow hydraulic fitting

to the googol.  The "proper price seems to be under $10 bucks.  It may be worth while for somebody to see if there's a less expensive swivel fitting.  I'm on a deadline at the moment, so I can't do it right now.

As to Klingra's remark:

"Who would believe that they had two different rockshafts for the same series tractors."

This aspect pisses me off to a certain extent.  forty or more years ago, Simplicity was just changing things for the sake of changing them.  In my fleet, there are any number of different designs for different parts that simply do not need to be different, but it made for higher profits for dealers.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I want to show the differences in the rockshafts, There is one rockshaft for the hand lift or electric lift models, and one rockshaft for the hydraulic lift models. the difference is in the inside dimension of the clevis arms on the rockshaft where you connect the rod end of the hyd. cylinder to the rockshaft clevis. The rockshaft clevis arms are welded to close together. The cylinder rod is wider than the slot between clevis arms. Also the hand lift rockshaft has a longer shaft so that the manual lift handle can be mounted on the left side of the tractor. 

20180327_103844.jpg

20180327_103746.jpg

20180328_113556.jpg

Edited by klingra
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am embarrassed by my lack of knowledge compared to many in the membership.

Trick is to live next door to these guys and do a lot of bribery.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Well its almost 2 years since I converted from the electric lift to the Hydraulic lift. I love it, it raises and lowers my rear tiller so much faster and powerful. I heard or read one time that there is 2 different speed electric lifts, slow and faster. I must have had the slower and more powerful electric lift on my 912 hydro, which I turned into what I call my 918H. That's because I put a used Sunstar 18 Kohler Magnum engine in the 912H. The sunstar had fell off the back of a careless loaded trailer [not me] and broke the hydro static trans axle. That was a successful alteration also. The biggest problem was that I had to lower [cut down] the left side of the tractor frame where the engine set.

Thanks to all you who helped me back in 2018. I'll probably need your help again in the future.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...