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Poorsob

Tiller mounting question

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Poorsob

I have a tiller that fits my B110 and Landlord 2012.  I was wondering how to get it to connect to my Baron 7013h,  The PTO connection spot is farther forward and the pulleys are different sized.  I asked Zippo this question on Youtube and he suggested I ask here.  Thank you for the help!

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PhanDad

The sideplates on the 7000 series tractors are about 4" longer than a B110.  So an 8" longer belt should be what you need.

A good way to find the length belt you need is to take some 5/8" rope and run it around the pulleys with the desired tightness.  Then measure the length of rope you used.  That should get you in the ball park.

If you're running the newer style tiller, with the small idler pulleys, a 5/8 x 96" belt, part #105340 is used:

KirksTiller_0021.jpg.b7ffd6ca0388af3b9bff6365d5598d46.jpg

 

If you're running the old round top tiller with one large diameter & one small diameter pulley that uses two belts, I don't know the size, but a PO of one of 75th tractors was running that setup:

IMG_4510.thumb.jpg.8771eae9a67d4a68ff61a1fb33e91f71.jpg

I'd start with a 8" longer belt from the PTO to the idler.  The size of the PTO pulley isn't that critical since you can control the tiller rpm with the throttle, especially easy with a hydro tractor.

 

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TimJr

A single reduction tiller such as the round top should not be run on a later tractor with a cone type PTO clutch.  It will spin it way too fast.  I know it can be installed and will run if you come up with a belt, but it isn't right.   The tractors that did not use a cone type clutch on the BGB had a PTO drive set up that reduced the input speed to the tiller to get it down to the proper speed.

What tiller do you have - need pics if you don't have the mfg. number.

There was a square shield tiller with double reduction and it had a PTO clutch on the tiller hitch for use with tractors that did not have a cone clutch on the BGB.

Then, finally there was a square shield tiller without a clutch on it that was for the later tractors.  All tillers will physically hang from all of the garden tractors, and if creative with belts, all combinations can be made to turn.  The early tillers on a later tractor just spin too fast.  I am not 100% sure if the idler pulley bracket from the later tillers will pin to the early tractor frame.  There may or may not be a hole on the LH upright of the hitch.

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Poorsob

Thanks for the help on this guys.  I guess this would make more sense with pictures so here they are.  

 

5a77278ed5f50_Tiller5.thumb.jpg.2ab9567c64a9f68e5cc7564cda21ed19.jpg

Here is the Baron 7013h.  The white tiller is the right one for this tractor and it works fine.  The yellow tiller (connected) is the one I would like to also work on this tractor.

 

 

5a7727e4c7bf3_Tiller1.thumb.jpg.3e95d360bbda3af8308acf69785f6b87.jpg

The yellow tiller fits an older B110 and Landlord.

 

 

5a7727da8e658_Tiller2.thumb.jpg.8fed0c99f7ee30fb454066776706a21d.jpg

This white tiller will attach to this Baron 7013h and everything works.

 

 

5a7727cfcd499_Tiller3.thumb.jpg.9dad5e4a4a1887502193b9f9bf8e35e2.jpg

Here is the PTO on this 7013h.

 

 

5a7727b650dd7_Tiller4.thumb.jpg.0894b625a45a1a16a1ffdf1eea589864.jpg

I do notice that the pulleys do not align.  The shaft on the white tiller is longer and so the pulley is out farther.  This could be the kiss of death for my plan.  

 

 

5a772a3cc4fbc_Tiller7.JPG.5503a8ea41aa2660321deaf0c7670a4f.JPG

I do have another one of these PTO clutches.  Can this go on this tractor to solve my problem, line up the pulleys and also gear it correctly?  Thanks again guys.  There is a wealth of knowledge on this site and I appreciate this help.

 

Edited by Poorsob
fix spacing

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PhanDad

Your white tiller was made for the cone clutch tractors - it has the large diameter pulley on the tiller, no built in clutch, and is used with the long belt and small idlers.  

14 hours ago, TimJr said:

A single reduction tiller such as the round top should not be run on a later tractor with a cone type PTO clutch.  It will spin it way too fast.

I'm not a tiller expert by any means, but I thought the large diameter/small diameter "idler pulleys" provided the "second" reduction and if you use them, the speed would be OK.  I agree that using a long belt would run the tiller at a much too high speed.

The old FDTs and all RBTs have the same 1:1 bevel gear box and the mid PTO shaft turns at the same speed as the engine.  There is a small difference in the rear attachment drive pulley size and, IMO, the engine RPM can be adjusted to have the tiller turn at an acceptable RPM, especially with a hydro tractor.  

Here's a pic of what I believe is an older single reduction square shield tiller and the matching "large/small idler pulleys used with it:

Kirk2_0005.jpg.28c885207dc2f320518bbb2317e5f072.jpg

 

Kirk2_0007.jpg.f50caf9b7855caa286a85a9c5a4d7de1.jpg

I believe this tiller is very similar to your yellow one except the pulley on your tiller looks to be bigger.  Maybe it was changed in an attempt to slow the tiller down without using the matching idler setup (and a single belt)?

 

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TimJr

If the 1960's style big pulley/small pulley idler/jackshaft assembly will fit onto an RBT with a cone clutch, then yes - it will provide the proper initial speed reduction to run the early single reduction tiller.  I didn't think that the early idler set up would fit, but I also never physically tried it.  I know someone that mounted a yellow single reduction tiller onto a 7116.  I never saw the set up, but he agreed that it ran way too fast and had to till at an abnormally low engine speed to keep the tiller from over-running and causing damage.  He said when he first fired it up, he didn't think about the speed of the tiller and when he sunk it in the ground, it was just going nuts.  He only used it twice a year on a small patch and wasn't breaking new ground with it, so he just left it.  I assume he fudged a belt onto it since it was a mis-matched set up. 

What is wrong with the correct tiller?  Why don't you want to use the proper one?

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Poorsob

Thanks for the help.  Please clue me in on what FDTs and RBTs are.  You lost me there.  Haha

There are a few reasons I want to be able to use this tiller, if it's possible.  One reason is because I have an extra one.  Actually I have 3...

 

5a786aadb6ca8_Tiller11.thumb.jpg.15850f8caf908fe1d2d3f755143fe8ad.jpg

One is for external parts only because the sprockets are toast and the machine shops want about $600 to replace them.  This was my Dads tiller behind the B110.  50 years ago it was literally tilling a one acre filbert orchard 2x a year.  This was before Roundup was invented.  It is amazing to think about how many miles/acres this tiller survived.  It outlasted my Dad but eventually met it's fate while I was tilling my moms garden about ten years ago.  I bought a used replacement and It stays at my mothers hooked to the B110 to till the garden each year.

 

5a7866e3156f0_Tiller8.thumb.jpg.ba4b42bfdb69883bdf0e1f67f3c83a03.jpg

So then I bought the ugly yellow tiller to go behind my sons tractor for our home garden.  However he has changed the gearing/speed of this Landlord and it won't go slow enough to till.  He has set it up for tractor pulling and that has been a lot of fun.

 

So I have the extra tiller and I just want the option to use it, unless it's too much trouble.  It is also narrower and I like the idea of the slightly narrower fenders for the "between the rows" tiller.

 

I think my plan is to put the white tiller on and get an idea of the RPM it spins.  Then put the big pulley/small pulley clutch on and see if it fits and things line up.  I guess I have nothing to lose, but my time.  Plus I kinda dig working on these old beauties.  They really do not make tractors like this anymore.  I love em.

5a7866e6d017e_Tiller9.thumb.jpg.2c1ac6f85eb574ed68e354d09c05afcd.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Poorsob

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gwiseman

Daren,  I don't think its recommended to hook a tiller designed for a foot dragger tractor (fdt) to a running board tractor (rbt) w/cone clutch. Having said that, this club does not necessarily follow conventional wisdom. HubbardRA and PeppyDan have successfully attached a fdt tiller to a rbt

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/37149-tiller/?tab=comments#comment-37152

 

 

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Poorsob

Ohhh....  That's good stuff right there.  Thank you for this.  His pictures are what I'm going for.  I'm going to give that a try.  Hopefully tomorrow I will have time.  It's currently a rare sunny 54 Degree day here in the Willamette Valley of Oregon and I have some apple trees to plant.

 

Edited by Poorsob
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Poorsob

Thank you.  It makes perfect sense now.  sm00  Haha.  Is there a crossover year that they changed from FDT to RBT or is it just a model thing?  Our B-110 and Landlord 2012 are FDT and the Baron is newer and is a RBT.  As far as my tiller project goes, it might be on hold until I get the time to play with it.  Too many things going on right now.  I do appreciate the help in this project.  The link to the pictures above tell me that it is possible.  sm01

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Poorsob

Well I found the time and got something done.  I took the double pulley that was off of the Landlord and put it on my Baron.  I then made a new arm for the idler pulley.  Then I had to make a bracket for the spring tensioner to hook onto.

 

Tiller20.thumb.jpg.c1cf2dc6bc753dfacc97fbcc6de773b0.jpgTiller22.thumb.jpg.fcc025081adb97c305125724ddf123b3.jpgTiller24.thumb.jpg.6d54dddb81359cbd51765bf693d638ef.jpgTiller26.thumb.jpg.34d3207366665d6e49c074ec805dc103.jpg

 

The white tiller that came with the Baron turned about 60 RPM with the engine at an idle.  This setup turns about 90 RPM at an idle.  This is most likely because the cone clutch has a larger pulley than the older style PTO off the BGB.  So as advised above I will most likely not run this full throttle.  Probably 1/2 to 2/3 throttle will be plenty.  I have not tested this in the dirt yet.  The dirt currently is mud here in the Willamette Valley of Oregon.  Thank you all for the help and please let me know what you think.

 

 

 

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Chris727

It is possible to get different sized pulleys with the same 3 bolt pattern that will fit your idler/drive unit. With some mathematical calculations you might be able to determine the pulley needed to get your tiller down closer to 60 RPM. 

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Poorsob

 

I did think about that Chris727.    Since the 2 biggest pulleys below really can't get any bigger due to clearances, the only one that could change is the small one on the idler drive could get smaller.  That still might happen, but first I would like to try it out as is.  Also, so far I have not modified any original parts.  Everything could go back where it came from and be used if needed.  Even the pivot for the idler arm I made so I did not have to cut the old one apart.

 

Tiller22.thumb.jpg.d481a036075c365d00c829a56822f042.jpg

Edited by Poorsob
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rokon2813

Till at an idle. Since it is a hydro you can match ground speed to tiller speed with that.

Even with the correct pulley set up, and hi low transmission you get the best tilling at lower RPM's. The faster the tiller runs, the more they bounce.

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