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docs

92 Sunstar 20 Replacement Engine List

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docs

Looking for a list of older 90-98 model tractors that have 20hp or larger horizontal engines with front PTO Shaft dem. of 1'-1/8 x 4" that I can put in a 92 simplicity sunstar 20.

Mine is smoking a little and the governor no longer works. I think I can buy a 90's model Craftsman GT 6000 or cub with same engine or a larger one that will fit just need some kind of list.

 Thanks
Tom

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Brettw

Is it currently a Magnum or a Command that is in the tractor?  Sounds like a Magnum with the governor issue, and if it didn't grenade when it failed you are lucky.  Sounds rebuildable to me.  Hone it out set of rings and new governor gear and you are good to go.

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MikeES

I agree with Brett, 20hp Magnum gasket seal kit with rings are $130, governor gear $35.  They are easy to overhaul and less work than trying to make another engine work, unless you get an identical engine (which means probably from another Simplicity built tractor).

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docs

I have been thinking about that, Kinda scares me a little. Last 2 engines cylinders I have attempted to hone have been out around.

to much to hone and needed bored. Cost was pretty high. You know anyone in ohio that will do that reasonable.?

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CarlH

If you rebuild it, you might want to replace the governor gear.  Also, you might look for a metal gear.  I think those from the cast iron singles will work.

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docs

I think they might be nylon gears, I have a new 1 here for a 14hp kohler magnum and it is nylon. also. But they do fit all these models

GovernorGear Kit Genuine Kohler Part # A-235743-S Fits Specific Kohler K181, K241, K301, K321, K341, M8, M10, M12, M14, M16, M18, M20, MV16, MV18 & MV20 Model Engine

It seems like I remember seeing metal govner before but not sure but I think it was on a briggs.

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docs
6 hours ago, Brettw said:

Is it currently a Magnum or a Command that is in the tractor?  Sounds like a Magnum with the governor issue, and if it didn't grenade when it failed you are lucky.  Sounds rebuildable to me.  Hone it out set of rings and new governor gear and you are good to go.

It is a Magnum 20 but they did put the command 20 in the later 90's models.

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docs

So the Simplicity Kohler Magnums and Commands were made specifically for the Simplicity's?
I know you can buy a modern re-power engine for the Simplicity's and kits to convert them .

Anybody here ever repower a sunstar with a engine from a different tractor?
Sure would be easier I think to buy a mag 20 horizontal out of a craftsman and install it in the sunstar 20 but if it's not the same design
it could be a problem.

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CarlH

Kohler Magnums and Commands were not made specifically for Simplicity, either for Sunstars or Sovereigns.   There is a specific Simplicity 'spec number' for each Simplicity application along many other spec numbers for other manufacturers applications.  If you visit the Kohler website you will get an idea of how many other brands used various Kohler engine models. Also, the mounting plate for Command powered Sunstars is welded into the frame.  On earlier Sunstars, the mounting plate is bolted in.  The mounting holes are different.  There is a different drive shaft for the Commands.

Edited by CarlH

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Bill725

I believe the original Kohler 20 HP Command engine used in the Sunstar was model CH20-64512 (someone else can confirm) and that engine has been superseded to a 20.5 HP, model CH640-3126. $1717.09 + $7.95 ship = $1725.04 at Pats Small Engine Plus. To confirm my belief, I suggest calling Central Power Distributors which handle Kohler service calls and questions at 262-250-1977.

Edited by Bill725

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docs

Yea OUCH, Thats why I was looking for a doner tractor. Looks like a rebuild is the way to go. I can find some of the craftsman early 90's pretty reasonable
With the kohler mag 20 if I can find a match from a doner I might just buy it for a backup and rebuild the 1 I have. Sounds like that might be the way to go for me.

Thanks for all your help, Ill keep those numbers and see if I can match 1 up.

Tom

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docs
15 hours ago, Bill725 said:

I believe the original Kohler 20 HP Command engine used in the Sunstar was model CH20-64512 (someone else can confirm) and that engine has been superseded to a 20.5 HP, model CH640-3126. $1717.09 + $7.95 ship = $1725.04 at Pats Small Engine Plus. To confirm my belief, I suggest calling Central Power Distributors which handle Kohler service calls and questions at 262-250-1977.

My sunstar has the mag 20, hoping to find a matching number from one of those from a doner, I can not find the plate on mine it was suppose to be on the frame but appears to be missing. Have no ideal what it is. Have to do some research to find what engine is in it.

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Richard Wright

I recently bought a later model Sunstar 20 with a completely shot (thrown rod, etc. etc.) CH20. I found a used CH25 on Ebay for $450 so I took a chance. The main difference is that the 25 muffler exhausts on the other side. The swap was easy and the tractor is great with five more horsepower. I got lucky. If anyone has any questions, I'll be happy to answer but in my experience the CH18-CH25 are all very similar and many parts will actually interchange. 

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MikeES

I haven't seen any Craftsman or even any Cub Cadets with M20, some had the MV20 which is a vertical shaft engine.  Some John Deere's had the KT17 engine which would be a drop in except for ignition wiring.

The KTs and Magnum usually do not wear out of round.  The ones I have overhauled were all within factory specs for std rings.  And they had a lot of blow by.

The rings wear but the cylinders do not. 

And if yours is smoking a little, is it maybe the breather, they came out with a reed valve upgrade. 

The governor gear is plastic, and I believe all the K engines and Magnums use the same gear.  The bad news is you can't fix the governor gear without  removing the cylinders and splitting the case, but you do not have to remove the pistons and piston rods from the crank.

Edited by MikeES

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docs
2 hours ago, MikeES said:

I haven't seen any Craftsman or even any Cub Cadets with M20, some had the MV20 which is a vertical shaft engine.  Some John Deere's had the KT17 engine which would be a drop in except for ignition wiring.

The KTs and Magnum usually do not wear out of round.  The ones I have overhauled were all within factory specs for std rings.  And they had a lot of blow by.

The rings wear but the cylinders do not. 

And if yours is smoking a little, is it maybe the breather, they came out with a reed valve upgrade. 

The governor gear is plastic, and I believe all the K engines and Magnums use the same gear.  The bad news is you can't fix the governor gear without  removing the cylinders and splitting the case, but you do not have to remove the pistons and piston rods from the crank.

Thanks that's good information, I think the blow by is maybe valves, I have redirected the hose that went to the breather to a line running down in front of the engine to drip on the ground and put new gaskets on that breather valve because it was leaking just in case that was happening. I also discovered couple weeks ago the front seal was leaking and started pouring oil out of it. I replaced that seal last week and the funny thing is the old seal almost fell out of it. No more leaks but still smokes a little mostly when you increase and decrease the throttle. It's tolerable right now but I don't want to screw up that engine, I like the fact you said the cylinders don't wear because I have seen a lot of that. I appreciate your input on this reassures me that engine will hold up.   Thanks

Edited by docs

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docs
On 4/22/2018 at 9:40 PM, Richard Wright said:

I recently bought a later model Sunstar 20 with a completely shot (thrown rod, etc. etc.) CH20. I found a used CH25 on Ebay for $450 so I took a chance. The main difference is that the 25 muffler exhausts on the other side. The swap was easy and the tractor is great with five more horsepower. I got lucky. If anyone has any questions, I'll be happy to answer but in my experience the CH18-CH25 are all very similar and many parts will actually interchange. 

Thanks that would be nice but I think the Magnum and the Command are more difficult to interchange. But it looks like that might be my only option if I can not get ahold of a M20. I do believe they sell a conversion kit for that repower.

Edited by docs

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ShaunE
10 hours ago, docs said:

Thanks that's good information, I think the blow by is maybe valves, I have redirected the hose that went to the breather to a line running down in front of the engine to drip on the ground and put new gaskets on that breather valve because it was leaking just in case that was happening. I also discovered couple weeks ago the front seal was leaking and started pouring oil out of it. I replaced that seal last week and the funny thing is the old seal almost fell out of it. No more leaks but still smokes a little mostly when you increase and decrease the throttle. It's tolerable right now but I don't want to screw up that engine, I like the fact you said the cylinders don't wear because I have seen a lot of that. I appreciate your input on this reassures me that engine will hold up.   Thanks

Have you performed a leak down test?  This will pinpoint the problem area.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1051744/Briggs-And-Stratton-272147.html?page=24#manual

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Simplicity7013H
14 hours ago, MikeES said:

I haven't seen any Craftsman or even any Cub Cadets with M20, some had the MV20 which is a vertical shaft engine.  Some John Deere's had the KT17 engine which would be a drop in except for ignition wiring.

The KTs and Magnum usually do not wear out of round.  The ones I have overhauled were all within factory specs for std rings.  And they had a lot of blow by.

The rings wear but the cylinders do not. 

And if yours is smoking a little, is it maybe the breather, they came out with a reed valve upgrade. 

The governor gear is plastic, and I believe all the K engines and Magnums use the same gear.  The bad news is you can't fix the governor gear without  removing the cylinders and splitting the case, but you do not have to remove the pistons and piston rods from the crank.

The Craftsman GT6000's came with MV20's and M20's. It really just depends because I have seen them with both. My M18 came out of Craftsman GT6000 and its a horizontal. Not really sure how the decided which motors to put in when. 

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docs

From what I could find it was the size of the deck it had to drive, The M18 was put in for 42-46" Deck and M20 for the 48-55" Deck

I have a couple models with the spec numbers. This is good info. because you can get some of these GT 6000's or HD II's for a song. There were  different tractors like Cub, Gravely, Wheel Horse and power equipment that also used these engines.
 

Here is 1 Model of craftsman tractor that had the m20 horizontal matching engines with correct shafts that will fit and work in simplicity sunstars.
I'll post more as I find them. There may be different wiring and muffler setup clutch but it should be a easy swap out of parts, plus other stuff but sometimes you can snag 1 of these for $200

Thanks goes out to Bill Kapaun over at My Tractor Forum for helping me figure this out.

http://www.managemylife.com/mmh/lis_pdf/OWNM/L0803600.pdf

Edited by docs

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MikeES
12 hours ago, Simplicity7013H said:

The Craftsman GT6000's came with MV20's and M20's. It really just depends because I have seen them with both. My M18 came out of Craftsman GT6000 and its a horizontal. Not really sure how the decided which motors to put in when. 

You learn something here everyday.  I have only seen vertical shafts in the Craftsman, so I assumed all were vertical.

Thanks

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docs

I just found a Horizontal Craftsman GT6000 18hp Kohler Magnum, There out there, people don't advertise the engine a lot of times.

Edited by docs
  • Like 1

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colincox1
On 4/21/2018 at 3:16 PM, MikeES said:

I agree with Brett, 20hp Magnum gasket seal kit with rings are $130, governor gear $35.  They are easy to overhaul and less work than trying to make another engine work, unless you get an identical engine (which means probably from another Simplicity built tractor).

Mike, hi, PLEASE where can one get the gasket seal and rings kit from, Best regards Colin 

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