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SmilinSam

Complete replacement Carb for 20 hp vanguard ?

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SmilinSam

Got a 358777 Briggs vertical vanguard that was from a newer style broadmoor. Works fine but the carb seems to be shot. Tried putting a kit in it, but seems to me like the jets are worn and its dumping ay too much fuel into the works. Will only run right when the engine is pulling a load,  and if the air filter gets even slightly dirty it quits running right and starts running way rich.

Cant seem to find a complete replcement carb for it. Theres loads of the nikki type cheap replacements on Ebay, but nothing but used ones like this engine has..

Anyone run into this?

Engine is currently driving one of my prestiges. Been shopping around for a cheap Crafts man donor with the right kind of 20-23hp Kohler command, but havnt found one yet.

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PhanDad

Hmmm, I must be missing something.

Seems Briggs and Stratton #845199 is a common carb for the 358777 Briggs engine.  

I'm guessing it's not correct for the Simplicity engine type.

 

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ShaunE

Do you have access to an ultra-sonic cleaner?  Before I bought one, I was able to use two at two different shops locally.  I was very impressed with how well they work.  Also, on the Nikki carb, is there a Welch plug over the low speed jet?  If so, you can remove to access the screw for removal for cleaning.

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SmilinSam
11 hours ago, PhanDad said:

Hmmm, I must be missing something.

Seems Briggs and Stratton #845199 is a common carb for the 358777 Briggs engine.  

I'm guessing it's not correct for the Simplicity engine type.

 

No, you are not missing anything, I was. Thats the right carb. Was hoping to find a aftermarket replacement for a fraction of that price though. I dont see any.

Not sure its worth putting $200 into an engine with over 1000 hours. Have to think on that.

Thanks Bill.

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SmilinSam
10 hours ago, ShaunE said:

Do you have access to an ultra-sonic cleaner?  Before I bought one, I was able to use two at two different shops locally.  I was very impressed with how well they work.  Also, on the Nikki carb, is there a Welch plug over the low speed jet?  If so, you can remove to access the screw for removal for cleaning.

`Its not the nikki carb. Wish it was as replacements can be bought for $42.

When this engine started doing this last year, the first thing we did was adjust the valves in the engine. That helped but didnt get rid of the problem. Next was tear the carb apart and clean it out good( of which it wasnt really dirty once it was opened up), and replace the float and float valve just in case that was allowing too much fuel in. That didnt help much. Changed out the air filter and changed the plugs. That got it running yet a little better, good , when the engine was pulling a load.

This last month it went back to running way rich again. Changed the air filter out and it ran decent again, all be it under a load.3 mowings later quit running right again even under a load. Went back and checked the valves and adjusted them again with minor results. Blew the air filter out( of which it wasnt that dirty) and the helped a bit more, but it still isnt right, even under a load.  Though it runs better, still not quite right.Just runs like an engine needing the main jet adjusted....which you cant do in a fixed jet carb.

This is why I think the jet is worn in this carb body. Like I said as dirt loads up in the air filter the performance quickly decreases. Shouldnt be that sensative. Its like with the air filter clean, the engine is on the edge of being able to run poperly and as the filter loads up it directly changes the fuel air mix to cause problems.

My wifes conquest has the same engine with the same carb. Its approaching 1000 hours and it has been and is slowly and steadily beginning to act like this engine.

There are 2 different briggs air filters. One is cheaper and more readily available from the box stores. It has less pleats and therefore has less surface area. The other has more pleats, is more expensive, and I can only find it at a dealer. If I buy the better air filter this helps  lengthen the time between problems, but doesnt stop the problem I described just above.

Edited by SmilinSam

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MARK (LI)

Sam...try this guy....I had similar problem with a 14 HP Vanguard...with a Walbro...this guy worked for B&S for a long time and has a lot of NOS....I had found a carb on line for about $250..I ordered it and it did not have proper fitting on bottom...I sent my carb to him and he rebuilt if for $60 including the parts........JMT ENT.    PO Box 183    443-542-1526    jmtwiggent@hotmail.com    
    Barton, MD 21521-0183            

 

 

Edited by MARK (LI)
mispelled word

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SmilinSam

Updating this thread.

Come to find out its not the carb thats the problem. Its the Briggs air filters. This last one loaded up in less than 12 hours of use. Only been in the tractor a few weeks.

Have the same problem with my wifes 20hp in her conquest. Seems like in the Broadmoor/Conquest/prestige types the Briggs filters load up quick from the dust and debris that the mower kicks up in front of the tractor.Decks all have the anti bl;owout plates, but doesnt matter.

Would like to put a Donaldson type air filter on it but havnt been able to locate a adaptor plate for the briggs 2 bbl carb to hook the rubber intake hose to from the air cleaner.

Either that or seal up the briigs air filter housing and connect a hose to it and run the other end of the hose somewhere where there is less dust for air intake.

 

Tired of buying filters all the time....

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PhanDad

Have you tried back blowing the filters? 

I've had some success doing this when I didn't have a replacement filter on hand; found you could use the filter for many more hours.  If dirt/dust collected has always been dry, it'll usually blow out.  

 

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SmilinSam

Blew it out and got another 2.5hours before it loaded up again and wouldnt run.. Put a new filter on and  its running fine again

There are 2 different briggs filters out there for this engine . one has twice as many pleats as the other and is about $10 more. I'm using the cheaper one right now, because they are the only ones readily available locally. Even so, my wifes conquest has been using the better ones, and they still load up quicker than they should.

I put 2 foam pre filters on this one to see if that helps any.

Edited by SmilinSam

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Tom45

Is something creating extra dust?  I had left the belt guards off my deck and had the same problem due to their stirring the grass clippings up.  Replacing them got things back to normal.  

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Richard Wright

It seems to me that mowing stirs up a lot of dust that is hard on all mechanical components. Here in Florida the sandy soil will literally sandblast through decks eventually. For that reason, I try to mow when the grass wet or at least damp. I suggest that this also helps keep air filters cleaner.  Also, the shorter the cut, the more dust and dirt. Raising the deck up slightly might help.  The deck should be adjusted to cut slightly (half inch) lower in front than at the back of the deck.  That way you are using one end of the blades for cutting and the back end of the blade is throwing out the clippings, not dragging through cut grass.  At least that's what I was taught and how I adjust mowers in my shop with many favorable comments about the improved cut. 

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SmilinSam

I have a second prestige with the Kohler 23 in it.  Its set up identical to this one with the same 54" deck. It mows in even dustier conditions and I never have any problems with its air filter loading up prior to its 50 hr change cycle..

I also had a 20/50 Simplicity zero turn for a couple of years. Same 20 hp vanguard. Its engine was in the rear and it never had the filter load up like on the Broadmoor and Conquest style tractors with the vanguards.

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