Simplicity 9020 not starting!

[Tom tractor 5]

On my 9020 the motor isn’t starting.  It was cranking one or two revolutions while starting but that’s it.  After tying to start it after multiple tries the starter now only clicks. The suliniod was already tapping and now the starter won’t crank.  All the electrical connections are solid. The battery is also good.  No difference if I jump the tractor off a car.  Do you think it needs a new starter.

****** How tough is it to pull the engine and replace the starter?

any suggestions for buying an aftermarket starter?

[SimpleOrange 154]

My 9020's one uses a Bosch while the other uses a Denso starter, solenoids, brushes and bushings are major components of a rebuild these parts you'll find at any shop that rebuilds starters and alternators.

On some solenoids the Bakelite end is removable, a cheap fix turn the copper power lug 180 degrees for some fresh contact surface. In the old days the large copper plated washer used to be made from solid copper and you could flip them over.

When you remove the engine take note of the one bolt that has a lug welded onto it, make sure it goes back into the same location. The lug locks up against the engine to prevent the bolt from turning while tightening the nut from underneath the tractor.

The other three bolts are serviceable from above using a socket or spanner.

When installing the nuts from below you'll need a non magnetic screw driver or a piece of broom handle to press from above the top of each bolt to kept it from popping free.

Edited July 10, 2018 by SimpleOrange

[Tom tractor 5]

SimpleOrange thanks for the info.  Do I have to back off on the drive clutch to free the belts before removing the engine?  From looking at the bolts that hold the engine in place - I can only see the three bolts from below the motor.  When you say "The other three bolts are serviceable from above using a socket or spanner. " Are you sure that you can access them from above?  I can't see any bolts from above?

[SimpleOrange 154]

58 minutes ago, Tom tractor said:

SimpleOrange thanks for the info.  Do I have to back off on the drive clutch to free the belts before removing the engine?  From looking at the bolts that hold the engine in place - I can only see the three bolts from below the motor.  When you say "The other three bolts are serviceable from above using a socket or spanner. " Are you sure that you can access them from above?  I can't see any bolts from above?

Perhaps someone has already had that engine out for one reason or other and soon tired of fighting with that one bolt that has the lug welded on top of it, that bolt should be placed in the engine base before placing the engine onto the frame.

I placed the bolt after the engine was set onto the frame, used a stick with a dab of heavy grease to hold the bolt while fishing it into place. It's located in an awkward spot and not very visible from the top end, but under the tractor your should see four nuts.

Use a large tapered punch inserted into a bolt hole, this will alighn the hole for the first bolt to be positioned, do not torque the nuts down until you have all four bolts installed.

Yes you'll have to release the clutch belts, I have to change the starter on my tractor used for snow blowing, the solenoid allows moisture to get in then when it freezes up - no go.

I've been thinking that if the belts were removed from the sheaves, the rear drive line is on a slider that just might allow one to lift the engine high enough to get at the starter for servicing.

Perhaps with the belts removed and the four bolts out the engine might be canted over to one side to expose the starter.

That Onan is a heavy beast of an engine, if you do not have an engine hoist build a simple tri pod. The three poles are chained together while laying splayed as a 3 point star flat on the ground then stood upright.

Its amazing what you can lift with a tripod, I've changed many engines using three poles harvested from the forest.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by SimpleOrange

[fishnwiz 3,288]

Darn Kohler KTS weigh enough to drop a nut or two also.Lifted one out a few weeks back.... Tripod is great suggestion.  

[midnightpumpkin 82]

Be aware, you also have to remove the flywheel in order to remove the starter from the engine.

I always start the engine sitting on a movers dolly on the floor before I put it back in the tractor to make sure all is working

John U. 

[SimpleOrange 154]

29 minutes ago, midnightpumpkin said:

Be aware, you also have to remove the flywheel in order to remove the starter from the engine.

I always start the engine sitting on a movers dolly on the floor before I put it back in the tractor to make sure all is working

John U. 

John U are you thinking the cowling over the flywheel has to be removed rather than the flywheel itself.

All three of my Onan engines have two bolts located under the air cowling that secure the starter to the engine there's no need to remove the flywheel or the cowling to remove the starter.

Once the two bolts are removed the starter simply slides out the rear.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by SimpleOrange

[SimpleOrange 154]

5 hours ago, Tom tractor said:

SimpleOrange thanks for the info.  Do I have to back off on the drive clutch to free the belts before removing the engine?  From looking at the bolts that hold the engine in place - I can only see the three bolts from below the motor.  When you say "The other three bolts are serviceable from above using a socket or spanner. " Are you sure that you can access them from above?  I can't see any bolts from above?

Yea the bolt heads are mostly hidden, if I recall I used a swivel socket on the one showing the open end wrench in addition to the one directly across from it.

I prefer using the 3/8 drive impact swivel sockets.

The bolt with the lug welded onto it should be under the starter, on the opposite side I used the open end wrench upended.

Looks like you will have to remove some tin under the oil cooler.

This is my AC 720 that came from Alberta when another forum member gave me a heads up on it, I've never had the engine out. Needs a bath.

 

[jlasater 202]

Interesting to see another tractor with "aftermarket" wiring. Mine is the same way to make the front clutch work.

[midnightpumpkin 82]

3 hours ago, SimpleOrange said:

John U are you thinking the cowling over the flywheel has to be removed rather than the flywheel itself.

All three of my Onan engines have two bolts located under the air cowling that secure the starter to the engine there's no need to remove the flywheel or the cowling to remove the starter.

Once the two bolts are removed the starter simply slides out the rear.

 

 

There are 3 bolts holding the starter as installed at the factory. You have to remove the flywheel to get at the 3rd bolt, per the PowerMax Repair manual page 2-25.

John U
 

[wwbragg 498]

Maybe this will help:

[SimpleOrange 154]

I stand by my comment, I have three Onan engines that each use two bolts to secure the starter to the engine base and that removing the flywheel is not necessary

Edited July 11, 2018 by SimpleOrange

[SimpleOrange 154]

Onan engines are made to be serviced in the field with ease and this is one reason you'll find that the carburettor,  contact points and condenser, fuel pump, coil and starter are so easily accessible.

It's the engineers at Simplicity who have error ed in the design of their great little tractors, that makes servicing the starter troublesome. 

Having said that, Simplicity did at the time choose the best industrial engine available.

Our 9020's and the Allis 720's hold a whopping 3.5 quarts of oil and have a pressurised oil system with a filter.

I still would not trade any one of Simplicity tractors for three JD's

Edited July 11, 2018 by SimpleOrange

[tadams 902]

I use a wood clamp and clamp the clutch pedal down and don't have to back the drive belt adjustment off.

[MARK (LI) 639]

Start simple......Did you try jumping the posts on the starter solenoid ?...I would do that before taking everything apart

Edited July 11, 2018 by MARK (LI)
I left out a word

[Tom tractor 5]

I appreciate all your impute.  I will dig into removing the motor this weekend. 

[Tom tractor 5]

I tried jumping the posts on the solenoid.  The only thing that happened was a whirring noice from the solenoid.  No starter engagement.  Also when I tried turning the key nothing happened.  Thoughts?

[PhanDad 3,244]

3 hours ago, Tom tractor said:

I tried jumping the posts on the solenoid.

Is the battery good under load? 

Did you check the voltage at the starter terminal when the solenoid was jumped?  I'm thinking there is low voltage condition; if the voltage isn't 12v+ at the starter, there's a resistance problem somewhere.  If you can direct wire the battery (+12v) to the starter terminal, try that while checking the voltage at the starter.  If still no go, there's an issue with the starter.  If you can't jump directly to the starter terminal, run the direct battery jumper to the side of the solenoid that goes to the starter.  It's a bit more work, but you can disconnect the lead from the solenoid and jump directly to the wire connector.  Check the voltage at the starter terminal for full battery voltage (+12v+).  

[SimpleOrange 154]

4 hours ago, Tom tractor said:

I tried jumping the posts on the solenoid.  The only thing that happened was a whirring noice from the solenoid.  No starter engagement.  Also when I tried turning the key nothing happened.  Thoughts?

Solenoids don't whirr, starting motors do when the Bendix has failed.

The Simplicity Bendix gear engages with a fork when the solenoid is activated, possible the pin that holds the fork has loosened and fallen out.

A more probable scenario is that the overrun clutch has failed.

Once the engine starts the over run clutch allows the Bendix gear to freewheel until disengaged from the ring gear. If the Bendix gear were not allowed to freewheel there"s a good possibility the copper windings would be spun out of the armature.

The over run is a sprag clutch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprag_clutch

Edited July 14, 2018 by SimpleOrange

[Tom tractor 5]

Just to follow up on fixing my tractor.  Long story short...

when I tightened the front PTO I stopped the motor from turning over - thus making the starter motor burn out because it couldn’t make the motor turn.  

Now the new starter is in the Tractor and working correctly.  

Ultimatly the Tractor just needed a new mower belt to make the tractor mow correctly.  I caused problems when I tightened the front PTO.  

[SimpleOrange 154]

3 hours ago, Tom tractor said:

Just to follow up on fixing my tractor.  Long story short...

when I tightened the front PTO I stopped the motor from turning over - thus making the starter motor burn out because it couldn’t make the motor turn.  

Now the new starter is in the Tractor and working correctly.  

Ultimatly the Tractor just needed a new mower belt to make the tractor mow correctly.  I caused problems when I tightened the front PTO.  

Good to hear your back in the drivers seat, did you have to remove the flywheel to install the starter, how, many bolts secure the starter to the engine.

[Tom tractor 5]

No flywheel removal.  Two bolts .  The bolts have slop which need to be adjusted in order to align the gear sprocket with the fly wheel

[midnightpumpkin 82]

I stand corrected on having to remove the flywheel to remove/replace the starter.

 

John U

[SimpleOrange 154]

Tom tractor would you be so kind as to post the part number for that new starter, thanks.

[Tom tractor 5]

Here is a photo of the original onan starter with part number 191-1052.

i purchased the after market starter from DB electrical.