Jump to content

Unofficial Home of Old Simplicity & Allis-Chalmers Garden Tractors

  • Announcements

    • Kent

      Sign In or Password Problems?   10/09/2016

      If you can't Sign In, you need to reset your password.  Use the Forgot Your Password link at the bottom of the Sign In screen, and the site will send you an email to reset it. If you have an AOL email account, use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the screen -- AOL is intermittently blocking email from the site.
    • Kent

      Feedback Please!   10/28/2017

      See News and Announcements forum.
Tom tractor

Simplicity 9020 not starting!

Recommended Posts

Tom tractor

On my 9020 the motor isn’t starting.  It was cranking one or two revolutions while starting but that’s it.  After tying to start it after multiple tries the starter now only clicks. The suliniod was already tapping and now the starter won’t crank.  All the electrical connections are solid. The battery is also good.  No difference if I jump the tractor off a car.  Do you think it needs a new starter.

****** How tough is it to pull the engine and replace the starter?

any suggestions for buying an aftermarket starter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimpleOrange

My 9020's one uses a Bosch while the other uses a Denso starter, solenoids, brushes and bushings are major components of a rebuild these parts you'll find at any shop that rebuilds starters and alternators.

On some solenoids the Bakelite end is removable, a cheap fix turn the copper power lug 180 degrees for some fresh contact surface. In the old days the large copper plated washer used to be made from solid copper and you could flip them over.

When you remove the engine take note of the one bolt that has a lug welded onto it, make sure it goes back into the same location. The lug locks up against the engine to prevent the bolt from turning while tightening the nut from underneath the tractor.

The other three bolts are serviceable from above using a socket or spanner.

When installing the nuts from below you'll need a non magnetic screw driver or a piece of broom handle to press from above the top of each bolt to kept it from popping free.

Edited by SimpleOrange
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom tractor

SimpleOrange thanks for the info.  Do I have to back off on the drive clutch to free the belts before removing the engine?  From looking at the bolts that hold the engine in place - I can only see the three bolts from below the motor.  When you say "The other three bolts are serviceable from above using a socket or spanner. " Are you sure that you can access them from above?  I can't see any bolts from above?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimpleOrange
58 minutes ago, Tom tractor said:

SimpleOrange thanks for the info.  Do I have to back off on the drive clutch to free the belts before removing the engine?  From looking at the bolts that hold the engine in place - I can only see the three bolts from below the motor.  When you say "The other three bolts are serviceable from above using a socket or spanner. " Are you sure that you can access them from above?  I can't see any bolts from above?

Perhaps someone has already had that engine out for one reason or other and soon tired of fighting with that one bolt that has the lug welded on top of it, that bolt should be placed in the engine base before placing the engine onto the frame.

I placed the bolt after the engine was set onto the frame, used a stick with a dab of heavy grease to hold the bolt while fishing it into place. It's located in an awkward spot and not very visible from the top end, but under the tractor your should see four nuts.

Use a large tapered punch inserted into a bolt hole, this will alighn the hole for the first bolt to be positioned, do not torque the nuts down until you have all four bolts installed.

Yes you'll have to release the clutch belts, I have to change the starter on my tractor used for snow blowing, the solenoid allows moisture to get in then when it freezes up - no go.

I've been thinking that if the belts were removed from the sheaves, the rear drive line is on a slider that just might allow one to lift the engine high enough to get at the starter for servicing.

Perhaps with the belts removed and the four bolts out the engine might be canted over to one side to expose the starter.

That Onan is a heavy beast of an engine, if you do not have an engine hoist build a simple tri pod. The three poles are chained together while laying splayed as a 3 point star flat on the ground then stood upright.

Its amazing what you can lift with a tripod, I've changed many engines using three poles harvested from the forest.

 

 

Edited by SimpleOrange
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fishnwiz

Darn Kohler KTS weigh enough to drop a nut or two also.Lifted one out a few weeks back....O.o Tripod is great suggestion.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
midnightpumpkin

Be aware, you also have to remove the flywheel in order to remove the starter from the engine.

I always start the engine sitting on a movers dolly on the floor before I put it back in the tractor to make sure all is working

John U. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimpleOrange
29 minutes ago, midnightpumpkin said:

Be aware, you also have to remove the flywheel in order to remove the starter from the engine.

I always start the engine sitting on a movers dolly on the floor before I put it back in the tractor to make sure all is working

John U. 

John U are you thinking the cowling over the flywheel has to be removed rather than the flywheel itself.

All three of my Onan engines have two bolts located under the air cowling that secure the starter to the engine there's no need to remove the flywheel or the cowling to remove the starter.

Once the two bolts are removed the starter simply slides out the rear.

 

2.jpg

 

3.jpg

4.jpg

Edited by SimpleOrange

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimpleOrange
5 hours ago, Tom tractor said:

SimpleOrange thanks for the info.  Do I have to back off on the drive clutch to free the belts before removing the engine?  From looking at the bolts that hold the engine in place - I can only see the three bolts from below the motor.  When you say "The other three bolts are serviceable from above using a socket or spanner. " Are you sure that you can access them from above?  I can't see any bolts from above?

Yea the bolt heads are mostly hidden, if I recall I used a swivel socket on the one showing the open end wrench in addition to the one directly across from it.

I prefer using the 3/8 drive impact swivel sockets.

The bolt with the lug welded onto it should be under the starter, on the opposite side I used the open end wrench upended.

Looks like you will have to remove some tin under the oil cooler.

This is my AC 720 that came from Alberta when another forum member gave me a heads up on it, I've never had the engine out. Needs a bath.

 

bolt.jpg

spanner.jpg

tin.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
midnightpumpkin
3 hours ago, SimpleOrange said:

John U are you thinking the cowling over the flywheel has to be removed rather than the flywheel itself.

All three of my Onan engines have two bolts located under the air cowling that secure the starter to the engine there's no need to remove the flywheel or the cowling to remove the starter.

Once the two bolts are removed the starter simply slides out the rear.

 

2.jpg

 

3.jpg

4.jpg

There are 3 bolts holding the starter as installed at the factory. You have to remove the flywheel to get at the 3rd bolt, per the PowerMax Repair manual page 2-25.

John U
 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimpleOrange

I stand by my comment, I have three Onan engines that each use two bolts to secure the starter to the engine base and that removing the flywheel is not necessary

bolt2.jpg

Edited by SimpleOrange

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimpleOrange

Onan engines are made to be serviced in the field with ease and this is one reason you'll find that the carburettor,  contact points and condenser, fuel pump, coil and starter are so easily accessible.

It's the engineers at Simplicity who have error ed in the design of their great little tractors, that makes servicing the starter troublesome. 

Having said that, Simplicity did at the time choose the best industrial engine available.

Our 9020's and the Allis 720's hold a whopping 3.5 quarts of oil and have a pressurised oil system with a filter.

I still would not trade any one of Simplicity tractors for three JD's

Edited by SimpleOrange
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MARK (LI)

Start simple......Did you try jumping the posts on the starter solenoid ?...I would do that before taking everything apart

Edited by MARK (LI)
I left out a word
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tom tractor

I tried jumping the posts on the solenoid.  The only thing that happened was a whirring noice from the solenoid.  No starter engagement.  Also when I tried turning the key nothing happened.  Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhanDad
3 hours ago, Tom tractor said:

I tried jumping the posts on the solenoid.

Is the battery good under load? 

Did you check the voltage at the starter terminal when the solenoid was jumped?  I'm thinking there is low voltage condition; if the voltage isn't 12v+ at the starter, there's a resistance problem somewhere.  If you can direct wire the battery (+12v) to the starter terminal, try that while checking the voltage at the starter.  If still no go, there's an issue with the starter.  If you can't jump directly to the starter terminal, run the direct battery jumper to the side of the solenoid that goes to the starter.  It's a bit more work, but you can disconnect the lead from the solenoid and jump directly to the wire connector.  Check the voltage at the starter terminal for full battery voltage (+12v+).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SimpleOrange
4 hours ago, Tom tractor said:

I tried jumping the posts on the solenoid.  The only thing that happened was a whirring noice from the solenoid.  No starter engagement.  Also when I tried turning the key nothing happened.  Thoughts?

Solenoids don't whirr, starting motors do when the Bendix has failed.

The Simplicity Bendix gear engages with a fork when the solenoid is activated, possible the pin that holds the fork has loosened and fallen out.

A more probable scenario is that the overrun clutch has failed.

Once the engine starts the over run clutch allows the Bendix gear to freewheel until disengaged from the ring gear. If the Bendix gear were not allowed to freewheel there"s a good possibility the copper windings would be spun out of the armature.

The over run is a sprag clutch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprag_clutch

download.jpeg

Edited by SimpleOrange
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×