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brokenwrench

bevel gear box tweaks

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brokenwrench

help   brokenwrench here i am rebuilding a gear box on my big ten for the 4th time.

i am sharing some things i do to prolong the life of these. 1 i drill and tap a 1/4 - 20 allen screw in each gear i mount the gears in a machinist vise by a piec of key stock to center the gear in the vice and clamp it with blocks of thin wood i drill as close to the center of the gear both directions as possible. i use a short allen screw  set screw. i  by doint this and assembling the box i then tighten the set screws this will prevent the key and keyway from wearing out 

dont get the gears mixed up they are directional when looking at the drive gear on the imput shaft  the right side of the gear should be arcing down.  you can install these backwards and the gears will fail  quickly...

as for gear oil we use the white litium outboard lower end grease mixed with hypoid gear lube we pack the bearings by hand and the needle bearings as best as we can and pag the box with extra grease. we then   finish the box and fill with theoutboard lower end lube oil this stuff is water broof and mad for bronze bushings needle bearings and ball bearings.. it is tackier and will not leak as easy as 80w gear oil

boxes i build in the shop vs the factory method ran twice as long and was more forgiving of leakage damage that built normally

 

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brokenwrench

we all know what a nightmare replacing the victor 64220 oil seal is that is not made anymore

here are the interchange numbers automotive supply houses cant get them  only available from industrial supply houses

 

Cross Interchange Part No. for: VICTOR 64220

 
Factory Number Cross Interchange Type Relevance
MASSEY FERGUSON RO2358 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 68X297 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NAPA 48668 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Continental Motors 70634 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NOK AD6922E Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 210040 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 50233S Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 67X297 Direct Cross Interchange 1
DEERE JOHN 21X22538A Direct Cross Interchange 1
Continental Motors 205005 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NOK AD6299E0 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 530171 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 50233 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 67X0297 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TIMKEN 482522 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Continental Motors 168433 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NOK AB6922F0 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 507232 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 482522 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 63X9345 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TIMKEN 481733 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Delco Moraine 298316 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NOK AB6922F Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 507221 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 481733 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 63X298 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TIMKEN 480233 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Boston Gear AD6922E00 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NOK AB6922E0 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 480233 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 63X297 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TIMKEN 471733 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Boston Gear AB6922F00 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NOK AB6922E Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 507216 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 63X0298 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TIMKEN 470233 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Boston Gear 46935 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NOK AA6922E Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 506625 Direct Cross Interchange

 

NATIONAL 471733 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 63X0297 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TIMKEN 452744 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Boston Gear 46934 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NOK AA1443E0 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 502956 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 470233 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 5X1042 Direct Cross Interchange 1
MCCORD 80217 Direct Cross Interchange 1
JM CLIPPER 6330LPD Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 502918 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 452744 Direct Cross Interchange 1
STAustin-Western 194006 Direct Cross Interchange 1
JM CLIPPER 6330LA Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 502860 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 452522 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 5X1040 Direct Cross Interchange 1
STEFA S1553 Direct Cross Interchange 1
JM CLIPPER 5764SS Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 187HD1 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 450233 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 51X298 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TRANSCOM 101875TB Direct Cross Interchange 1
JM CLIPPER 01006330LPD Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 187G1 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 410233 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 51X297 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TRANSCOM 101872VHY Direct Cross Interchange 1
JM CLIPPER 01005764SS Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 187FF1 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NATIONAL 351733 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 51040 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TRANSCOM 101872VH Direct Cross Interchange 1
JM CLIPPER 010006330LPD Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 1871 Direct Cross Interchange 1
HARNISCHFEGER 18Z2554D19 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 4X1042 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TRANSCOM 101872TB Direct Cross Interchange 1
WESTON WR1181 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 1861 Direct Cross Interchange 1
SKF 10075 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 4X1040 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TRANSCOM 101872SB Direct Cross Interchange 1
TIMKEN 450233 Direct Cross Interchange 1
WESTON W18710031R4 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 10100 Direct Cross Interchange 1
VOLVO 114032 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 41048 Direct Cross Interchange 1
SKF Automotive OS10075 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TIMKEN 410233 Direct Cross Interchange 1
WESTON W18710025 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 10096 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GM 5193684 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 41040 Direct Cross Interchange 1
REPCO PR5023 Direct Cross Interchange 1
VICTOR 65254 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 10093 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GM 2058459 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 3X1042 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Fel-Pro S15647 Direct Cross Interchange 1
VICTOR 64220 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 10089 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GM 07047706 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 3X1040 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Fel-Pro 15647 Direct Cross Interchange 1
REPCO PR2097 Direct Cross Interchange 1
VICTOR 64050 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 10082 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CHRYSLER T823 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 31040 Direct Cross Interchange 1
BROWNING A4088761 Direct Cross Interchange 1
REPCO 50023 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 10079 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CHRYSLER T822 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 2X1042 Direct Cross Interchange 1
FREIGHTLNR CHR10096 Direct Cross Interchange 1
REPCO 1871A1 Direct Cross Interchange 1
VICTOR 64049 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 10078 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CHRYSLER T10075 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 2X1040 Direct Cross Interchange 1
FREIGHTLNR CHR10075 Direct Cross Interchange 1
IHC 606549C91 Direct Cross Interchange 1
VICTOR 62275 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 10077 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 246002434 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bearings Inc 2913044 Direct Cross Interchange 1
IHC 542127R91 Direct Cross Interchange 1
VICTOR 62274 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CR 10075 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 218230297 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bearings Inc 1547785 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bearings Inc 2913028 Direct Cross Interchange 1
IHC 42940D Direct Cross Interchange 1
VICTOR 62273 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TROSTEL A86669S Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 215280297 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bearings Inc 1443647 Direct Cross Interchange 1
IHC 42490D Direct Cross Interchange 1
VICTOR 62272 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TROSTEL A54249S Direct Cross Interchange 1
SEALED POWER N10096 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 211589345 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bearings Inc 1443639 Direct Cross Interchange 1
IHC 424900 Direct Cross Interchange 1
VICTOR 60254 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TROSTEL A54249 Direct Cross Interchange 1
SEALED POWER N10078 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 211584297 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bearings Inc 1443613 Direct Cross Interchange 1
IHC 42490 Direct Cross Interchange 1
VICTOR 48668 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TROSTEL 44232 Direct Cross Interchange 1
SEALED POWER N10075 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 211580298 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bearings Inc 1443605 Direct Cross Interchange 1
IHC 267022R91 Direct Cross Interchange 1
LINK BELT 319W2836 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TROSTEL 15610007 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NSN 5330007642128 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bendix Westinghouse CR1871 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bearings Inc 1443597 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CATERPILLAR 2D9870 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TROSTEL T50233 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TROSTEL 15610004 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NSN 5330002974413 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 211580297 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bendix Westinghouse 644881 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bearings Inc 1433621 Direct Cross Interchange 1
CATERPILLAR 209870 Direct Cross Interchange 1
TROSTEL A86670S Direct Cross Interchange 1
L&S Bearing A54249 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NSN 5330002912362 Direct Cross Interchange 1
GARLOCK 21040 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NOK AE6922E0 Direct Cross Interchange 1
ALLIS-CHALMERS 601872 Direct Cross Interchange 1
L&S Bearing 7110096 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NSN 500245 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bendix Westinghouse 1871 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NOK AD6922E0 Direct Cross Interchange 1
EATON 30102561000 Direct Cross Interchange 1
L&S Bearing 7110075 Direct Cross Interchange 1
NSN 1450010709062 Direct Cross Interchange 1
Bendix Westinghouse 0815B

Direct Cross 

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brokenwrench

i found my folder i found my notes on my previous BGB rebuild

allis chalmers made a kit after the original victor seal was discontinued.

it consisted of an aluminum part a smaller seal pressed into it had a groove in the outer diameter surface to accept an O ring it was the same width of the original seal . the other thing we did was  replace the ball bearing with one  that is sealed on one side

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Brettw

I am not trying to be difficult here, but with all of this special attention to rebuilding a BGB to excess standards, I have to ask:  Just what is it you are using this Big 10 for, that you have gone through 4 BGB's (5 including the original)??  Rock crushing?

Edited by Brettw
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brokenwrench

from 1966-1975 it cut 14 acres of gras per week from 1975-to 2006 it cut over 2 football field sized lots plus plowed 2 acres of truck patch garden in small plots too small for a big tractor and plow  . we pulled  wagons around the farm with it i drove it ground hog hunting morning and evening.needle bearings in that BGB was the weak point had they been timken cone bearings or ball bearings they would have run a lot longer.a 40 acre cemetary had 2 of these  with grasscatchers they were repairing the bgb in them every 3 years.after the original seals were unavailable and replaced with the C styled open sided ones that were half as wide even butting 2 of them in the  place of the original they do not hold up  the pressure from the bevel gears crushes the seal.the best fix was the AC upgrade kit and they were only available until AC sold out to deutz..

  simplicity did not have them. when the heavier gearbox came out in the 700 series with the larger shafts they held up much better in commercial service.. the original BGB was only subjected to 71/4 ,9 ,10 and 12 hp and those were conservitive hp ratings.the old 12 hp brigs was set to 3400rpm  then when they were sped up to 3600rpm they put out 13 to 15hp  with the 30cid  engine. the long stroke 16 hp 32cid  would tweak out closer to 18hp and had more torque in tall grass than a 18hp IC twin briggs

bottom line the bgb problems happen in commercial service more often where they get more than 100hrs/mo usage and there are some tractors out there running the original untouched bgb. i looked at a b212  that had 680 hours on  it and the bgb was in good shape the owner confirmed he never had a problem with it.

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MrSteele

When I rebuilt several years ago, I had no good idea that there were problems with the boxes. Of course, I only use my Landlord to cut about 3 acres of grass a week, pull trailers where a truck cannot get in the woods for firewood, ride the occasional tractor parade.

packed everything with front wheel bearing grease prior to assembly. The only thing I considered an improvement over original was to add length to the input needle bearing. Original was 3/8" long, a 3/4" fit easily, and since the seal was to the outside of the box, used the 3/4" bearing. It extended less than 1/8" into the box. I also added a longer bearing to the steering box when that was rebuilt. More bearing surface usually means less friction, or that was my thought.

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Chris727

@brokenwrench, Do you have any tips for installing the retaining ring onto the input shaft? The Simplicity video suggests using a gear as a driver but the dog gone thing is so tight I can't come close to getting it on the shaft or use a tool to expand it without damaging the ring.

 

Thank You. 

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brokenwrench

i use a deep well socket the correct size and  i grind a 45 degree taper on the input end set the ring on the bevel and set the shaft on a block of wood and place the socket on the ring and tap with a hammer  you only need to start it then you can move it into the  slot with a  box end wrench and a small hammer

 

Edited by brokenwrench
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PhanDad

I also install it over the input end of the shaft. 

I make sure the "inside" of the retaining ring is smooth (last one I got was sharp) so it doesn't scratch the shaft at the seal area.  I position the gap over the key-way cut; this helps get the ring started.  

 

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Chris727
12 hours ago, PhanDad said:

I also install it over the input end of the shaft. 

I make sure the "inside" of the retaining ring is smooth (last one I got was sharp) so it doesn't scratch the shaft at the seal area.  I position the gap over the key-way cut; this helps get the ring started.  

 

Just tried that. Once I got it up to the groove I couldn't expand the ring sufficiently to get it over the hump and into the slot. Removed it and may grind a slight taper on the gear end of the shaft so it can just slip into the slot once started. 

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PhanDad
9 hours ago, Chris727 said:

over the hump and into the slot.

I don't think there should be a "hump" at the retaining ring groove - if you put a straight edge over the groove, there shouldn't be any "rocking".  

Maybe the groove was just staring to be damaged?  Here's a pic of a retaining ring groove that's heavily damaged:

IMG_9445a.thumb.JPG.392dbc202da94bb04917893c1e317f8b.JPG

The pic is from a Homelite T-10 BGB cross shaft. (I parted out the T-10 for spare Homelite parts - never used the tractor).  The BGB didn't fail and was tight.  I found the damage when I disassembled it for the gears to rebuild a Sov 18 BGB last year.  I think the tranny drive pulley became loose and and the shaft moved axially for many hours (wrong spacer maybe?).  You can see in the pic where the gap in the retaining ring was, there isn't a "hump".  

  

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Chris727
3 hours ago, PhanDad said:

I don't think there should be a "hump" at the retaining ring groove - if you put a straight edge over the groove, there shouldn't be any "rocking".  

Maybe the groove was just staring to be damaged?  Here's a pic of a retaining ring groove that's heavily damaged:

IMG_9445a.thumb.JPG.392dbc202da94bb04917893c1e317f8b.JPG

The pic is from a Homelite T-10 BGB cross shaft. (I parted out the T-10 for spare Homelite parts - never used the tractor).  The BGB didn't fail and was tight.  I found the damage when I disassembled it for the gears to rebuild a Sov 18 BGB last year.  I think the tranny drive pulley became loose and and the shaft moved axially for many hours (wrong spacer maybe?).  You can see in the pic where the gap in the retaining ring was, there isn't a "hump".  

  

This is a foot dragger BGB. From the retaining ring forward is a smaller diameter than the gear end of the shaft. The RBT input shafts are the same diameter for the full length. Thus the driveshaft flange yokes are not interchangeable between FDTs and RBTs. 

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PhanDad

Thanks for the explanation. 

It's been 20 years since I was into a FDT BGB.  I remember the cross shaft having a "hump" or step, but only the input shaft being smaller than the newer BGB's. 

I wonder how long I'll be able to remember this lesson?

:(

 

   

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