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Wilbur643

Triad, hunting?

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Wilbur643

I've owned this 75th Sov with the TH18 for eleven years, bought it for the dealer it was his wife's, she drove it in the parade. Between him, Al, and I we've kept it running great. About a year and a half ago it started hunting, it would run fine with the choke closed about a quarter. I used carb cleaner and reset the governor and that helped some but still needed the choke out some. I had a new carb,  a new left side cam cover, timing belt along with some other new items that I planed to replace once I found a new right side cam cover, so I just used the tractor like it was until I was ready to replace every thing, it doesn't get used a lot. About two months ago I replaced every thing along with a new vacuum fuel pump, I found the carburetor elbow was cracked were one of the mounting screws goes, I though that might be were it was get air. Put it all back together started it, and it ran great, I need to adjust the throttle cable a little but no hunting, drove it around the neighborhood for about a half hour with no problem. I haven't used it since, but I have started it and let it run for about 10 minutes a couple of times just to keep the battery charged. Got on it yesterday and after about a minute it started hunting again, choke closed about a quarter, runs great, any thoughts?

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SimpleOrange

worn throttle shaft bushings on the carburetor, to check and confirm  add  few drops of heavy weight oil or a dab of grease onto the butterfly shaft where it enters the bushing and see if this stops the vacuum leak.

Edited by SimpleOrange
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Wilbur643

The carb and elbow are new, all new gaskets and torqued to spec. So with the choke closed a little and running fine it wouldn't be a governor issue? I'm just trying to eliminate thing that may not be the problem.

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Bill725

I had just under 500 hours on my bought new Sovereign originally powered with a Triad and then I constantly had issues with the carb getting dirt into the idle jet passage and the engine would not run. I have never used fuel with ethanol. It quit twice while mowing, and once with snow blowing, which was the last straw. My snow blower tractor has got to run when I need it. Luckily, I have another Sovereign repowered with a Command and a 725 with a snow plow. I had a brand new Command sitting in the basement staring me in the face, just waiting for the Triad to fail. With the on going issues with NLA Triad parts, I pulled the plug on an otherwise perfect running, well maintained Triad and replaced it with the Command. I have not looked back since.

I suggest you remove the carb and clean it and make sure to remove the top cover plate, the plug over the the idle jet, and idle jet. That was the only way to get my Triad back running, but it did not run very long before I had to do it again. After 3 times, it was enough for me.

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LMichaels

Don't hate on the ethanol so much. It's not the cause of your issues. You either have a vacuum leak or something is plugged. A 10% ethanol blend does really no harm to just about any engine but especially so if the engine was designed around the realities that the new gasolines we buy now are VERY corrosive and that includes so called Ethanol free. All gasoline sold in the US is required by federal law to have oxygenates in it. Whether it's ethanol or something else. I don't think ethanol is any more harmful than any other and in fact may be far less harmful than the other oxygenates used. I tried some E free gas sold by a station nearby in both my outdoor equipment and in one of my cars (all this at a cost that is at least $.60 higher than E10) and there was no difference in anything. No better performance or operating economy. So honestly I don't think I will buy it again for the equipment and certainly not for the car

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Wilbur643
47 minutes ago, LMichaels said:

Don't hate on the ethanol so much. It's not the cause of your issues. You either have a vacuum leak or something is plugged. A 10% ethanol blend does really no harm to just about any engine but especially so if the engine was designed around the realities that the new gasolines we buy now are VERY corrosive and that includes so called Ethanol free. All gasoline sold in the US is required by federal law to have oxygenates in it. Whether it's ethanol or something else. I don't think ethanol is any more harmful than any other and in fact may be far less harmful than the other oxygenates used. I tried some E free gas sold by a station nearby in both my outdoor equipment and in one of my cars (all this at a cost that is at least $.60 higher than E10) and there was no difference in anything. No better performance or operating economy. So honestly I don't think I will buy it again for the equipment and certainly not for the car

I believe it's an air/fuel delivery problem. I don't think we need to debate the problem with ethanol gas on any small engine that is not used regularly, it will cause problems. 

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ShaunE

Chris, I had the same problem with mine after the first year of using it.  I'm not sure what  I did to fix it but I fixed it.  I took the carburetor off three times & ran it through an ultra-sonic cleaner three times, completely disassembled, removed the welch plug to remove the low speed jet,  used a combination of Seafood & K-100 fuel additive, fresh E-free gas, new impulse fuel pump & filter & made sure the gas cap was venting properly as well.  Mine would run great for about 10 minutes @ full throttle, start hunting & fall flat on its face.  I felt it was over-reving & running out of fuel.  It would always restart.  One thing I noticed is the long bolt that is the throttle stop was not making contact with the tab it was supposed to & it was threaded in all the way.  I purchased a longer metric bolt that would make contact with the tab, & made sure the engine was not reving past 3500 RMPs which it was before.

I posted my question on here regarding my issue in the past asking if it was possible that over-reving could have been a contributing factor in so many of these engines failing.  

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/59376-calling-current-triad-owners/?tab=comments#comment-474822

It worked fine the first summer I used it, the next it did not which doesn't make sense.  But in doing all those things I listed above, It started working properly & has been trouble free since.

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fishnwiz
8 hours ago, ShaunE said:

.  I took the carburetor off three times & ran it through an ultra-sonic cleaner three times, completely disassembled, removed the welch plug to remove the low speed jet,  used a combination of Seafood & K-100

Did you use Bluegills  or lake perch? :D

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Wilbur643
23 hours ago, ShaunE said:

Chris, I had the same problem with mine after the first year of using it.  I'm not sure what  I did to fix it but I fixed it.  I took the carburetor off three times & ran it through an ultra-sonic cleaner three times, completely disassembled, removed the welch plug to remove the low speed jet,  used a combination of Seafood & K-100 fuel additive, fresh E-free gas, new impulse fuel pump & filter & made sure the gas cap was venting properly as well.  Mine would run great for about 10 minutes @ full throttle, start hunting & fall flat on its face.  I felt it was over-reving & running out of fuel.  It would always restart.  One thing I noticed is the long bolt that is the throttle stop was not making contact with the tab it was supposed to & it was threaded in all the way.  I purchased a longer metric bolt that would make contact with the tab, & made sure the engine was not reving past 3500 RMPs which it was before.

I posted my question on here regarding my issue in the past asking if it was possible that over-reving could have been a contributing factor in so many of these engines failing.  

https://simpletractors.com/forums/topic/59376-calling-current-triad-owners/?tab=comments#comment-474822

It worked fine the first summer I used it, the next it did not which doesn't make sense.  But in doing all those things I listed above, It started working properly & has been trouble free since.

Shaun, you may be on to something. Now that I think about it, this may have started after I installed a new throttle cable a couple of years ago. What you described is pretty much whats happening. It starts fine but when I throttle up the governor starts hunting, it will start to die unless I choke it some then run fine, to much choke and it starts running bad not hunting just no air. This carb is brand new out of the box with less than an hour on it, I just don't think it's the carb since the old one did the same thing even after an ultra-sonic cleaning and seafoaming and E-free gas. I not 100% sure I returned all the linkages and spring back to where they were originally, my daughter couldn't find the pictures I took when I removed everything. I have the TH18 manual and it helps a lot but can be vague on something. No the throttle never contacted the stop bolt as long as I've owned it. Pictures of how the choke, throttle, and governor control where originally connected would be great, or any picture of how they a connected on one that runs good would be very helpful. I my end up taking it to my dealer, but the original owner and owner of the tractor died the same month Al did, he knew a lot about these triads. The guy who runs it now know a lot about them also but tends to run the front desk, and let the young guy do the work, lets just say I'm not real thrilled with some of their work.    

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fishnwiz
On 10/1/2018 at 3:23 PM, spi said:

Phew! I was about to liquefy some shrimp.

Not a fan of Stay Gill myself. 

Edited by fishnwiz
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Kenh

Maybe a long shot but had a KT19 that would hardly run at idle.  Would hunt and eventually die.  Full throttle was OK but did seem to lack power.  Removing the fuel line saw very little fuel being pumped at idle and slightly more at full throttle.  Replaced the fuel pump and all is good now.  

 

Ken

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