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Hello, Good People, and a few starter/generator qu

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Hi,.I just joined this club, to be able to ask a question, or 2, regarding Delco-Remy starter generators. I'm really hopin Mr. Al Eden would answer my question, but if any of you know, I'd love to hear all answers. Here goes the situation, and the question(s). Old Wheel Horse, model unknown, exactly, but we think it is a Model 854, or a RJ-58..( I realize this is not a Wheel Horse Forum, and that several WH forums exist).It's got a Kohler 8HP motor, that uses a Delco-Remy starter/generator. I have read Mr. Al Eden's article, regarding starter generators, and performed the tests suggested for a charging problem. My results are as follows...I got about 1 to 1.5 VDC, measuring between the A-post and Battery Ground post, at full throttle. If I idle down, I got nothin. If I ground the F-post, I'm workin perfect..it seems. I got 13 VDC at the A-post, whereas Battery Voltage reads about 12.4, if not running, and ignition is off. Also, my Ammeter registers charging occurring, and varys from 2 to 13 amps, depending on engine RPM. I removed the SG from the unit, and performed the A to F-post Ohm reading, I got 7.8 ohms(no problem, there). I checked resistance between armature commutator bars, and armature shaft, I got infinite on each bar,(which is correct).I got new end bushing, new bearing, new brushes. Ok..here's my questions..... #1- What does grounding the F-post accomplish ? It seems that this is a test procedure, not a desired condition, although, our unit gives us every indication, that it's working right, when we do this. #2- Is it Ok to just run it, with the F-post grounded, and if not, why ?, what will happen, or get damaged ? #3- Does the fact that grounding the F-post produces a 13 VDC charge offer any confirmation, as to the armature's condition, ie...rule it out as a culprit? In other words, do I still need to get a growl-test run ?...or does the 13VDC indicate that there aint no way my armature is bad ? Looking forward to the insight yall can provide, and very grateful for the opportunity to query the group,....Thanks

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Roy
Gimme3, 1. Grounding the "F" (field) post makes the generator put out maximum power (volts & amps). 2. If you run with the "F" post grounded you will fry the generator. 3. A 13 vdc charge probably indicates the generator is OK depending upon the battery charge level, wiring, etc. The generator output voltage is rated higher but that is dependent upon the amperage output at the time. If your battery was down while you were testing the amps may have been high which results in lower voltage. Sounds like you may have a voltage regulator problems. Al, and others, will have to confirm this. Roy

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PatRarick
I also believe that it is a regulator problem. When you ground the "F" terminal, you are by-passing the voltage regulator. As to frying the generator, I'm not sure if it is the generator or battery that will fry. The books recommend bypassing the regulator when the machine is started often and operated for short periods of time, or if it is operated for extended periods with a high electrical load, such as operating headlights. Pat

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Guest
Ty for respondin,so fast... ok, Roy,Pat,.. thats kinda what i feared....problem is, the SG just came back from the shop, with a brand new regulator on it...and thats where the new brushes, bearing, and bushing were installed. It's really a quite simple piece,...once you open it up and look at it. And thats why im wonderin, still, about question number 3... If it will put out 13VDC with F-post grounded, could my armature STILL....be bad...or..in other words, Do I still need to go get a growl test ? Or..could it simply be an adjustment on the regulator,..thats needed ? Thank yall, again..for tryin to help :)

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PatRarick
I seriously doubt that the armature is bad. I would guess a faulty regulator or an adjustment to the regulator. Since you just got it back from the shop, did you polarize the generator when you reinstalled it? Check the detailed article by Al Eden. Pat[A href='http://www.simpletractors.com/service/electrics/electrical_systems.htm']http://www.simpletractors.com/service/electrics/electrical_systems.htm[/a]

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Al
Hi, The SG is really 2 units in one box. The unit has 1 generate field coil wound with small wire, many turns, the regulator provides a ground path for the field coil. The armature is connected to the other field lead. As the voltage out of the armature goes up the voltage goes up. If the field is grounded, the higher the voltage, the stronger the magnetic field to the armature and the more output. When the field is grounded the generator will put out all it can. The regulator senses the voltage and the current output and limits either or both by intermittantly grounding the field. Several things can affect the output of the SG. If the armature has had the outside of the laminations sanded down as the clearance between the pole piece and the armature increases the max output goes down. A shorted turn in the armature will do the same. Thirteen volts is not abnormal, if the battery is down or the load is high. A high wattage 1/4 ohm resistor in series with the the A Terminal and the battery might show that the SG would jump up to 14.5 or so and be OK. Growling the armature will find shorted turns in the windings, but not an open segment. For more info look at a post earlier today on jeeze I am getting tired of this. I don't know the number and if I try to find out I will lose this. Good luck, Al Eden Found it 7077 reply 9

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