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mp38allis

Hydrostatic for moldboard plowing.

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mp38allis

I'm new to garden tractors. I was looking for an Allis B10 or B12. I came across a Simplicity 7117H that I fell in love with. A friend of mine, who sold his 7117, told me that a hydrostatic drive would not do good with a single bottom sleeve hitch moldboard plow (such as a Brinly). I'm gonna call bull***, and buy a Brinly plow to find out for myself. I built my own sleeve hitch with a 770lb electric actuator. I used it to jack up the back end of the tractor and change the tires. Is there anyone else out there that can tell me that my 7117H cannot pull a one bottom Brinly plow?

 

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a_sannine

7117.  Hydrostatic  is a beast , add wheel weights and AG tires , I wish I shot  a vedio of the logs I dragged with my 7119  last week .

go for it , don’t listen to you friend .

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mp38allis

Thanks, a_sannine! After rereading my post, it comes off rather gruff. My point was, that for some reason, my friend insisted that engine driven geared power was more conducive to work than hydraulic power. In principle, this sounds foolish to me. In reality, however, I don't have much experience with garden tractors. Other than hauling, such as large trucks, most heavy equipment uses hydraulic power. The other side of that coin is farm tractors tend to be gear driven engine power. Road operated, speed sensitive vehicles are obviously easier to handle by governing engine speed than using hyraulic flow rate. It's good to hear that my new baby is going to be ready  to work!! 

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B-16_IC

Big thing with the hydro pulling a heavy load of any kind is to run it with plenty of throttle. Nothing below half, three quarterwould be better. This keeps the fluid pumping and the cooling fan moving sufficient air. 

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a_sannine
26 minutes ago, mp38allis said:

Will do, thanks B-16_IC!  Does anyone make an add-on cooler for the hydraulic oil? 

Don’t worry about a cooler , these trannys pumps bulletproof.

give it an oil and filter change, grease it all especially the axle and  wheel hub on right , change ur bgb  gear oil , u can use 80/90 and have fun with it.

Edited by a_sannine
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RAC

Power transfer is less efficient in the hydro so all things being equal the hydro will not pull as much as equivalent HP gear tractor at the same final drive ratio. That being said, won't hurt the transmission/hydro drive unit if it is in good working order. Your little Simp/Allis hydro is essentially the same thing as found in the 70/86 series IHC tractors, modern combines of all makes & etc. Really durable as long as has fluid and somebody hasn't done something like tow it.

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Talntedmrgreen

Hydros work great for ground engagement, but its true they need flow and they are more hands on than a gear drive, for maintaining speed for work like tilling. I prefer a gear drive for plowing, but have run hydros too...and loved it. 

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Chris727

You will do fine. I love the 916H for plowing.  Did a 1/4 acre with it last year. For me, most of my gear drive tractors have manual lift so the hydro with hydraulic lift is an easy choice. 

DSCN6595.jpg

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TommyK1

Quickest way to trash a hydro drive system is to regulate speed with the throttle.  High engine speed, high oil pressure.  Low speed, low oil pressure.  Hydro parts glide against each other with a film of oil.  Lower speed = lower presser = less oil film = faster wear of metal parts.  Wide Open Throttle or nothing.  Regulate ground speed the way it was designed, with the hydro lever.  Once in neutral, then you can drop the throttle.  Also, I hardly ever use the clutch/brake.  I clutch only to start the engine.  Clutching stops power to the hydro pump, dropping oil pressure.

Learned this from an asphalt paver service guy.  Went on a service call for short lived hydro pumps and motors.  The paver operator was the problem.  Ideally the asphalt paver should never stop moving forward until lunch. Truck dumps, pulls away then next truck should back in without the paver ever stopping.  This 'operator' was paving as fast as possible until the hopper was empty, then stopping to wait for the next truck.  To stop forward motion he throttled down to near stall, then killed the engine.  When the next truck started to dump, he started it up again. Nobody paves like this.. except this guy.  Not only was he destroying the hydros, he was going through starter motors like penny candy.  He was puting 6 months of wear on a starter motor in a single day. By the end of the month it too was toast.  It's called Inherent Operator Malfunction.  Yup, they retrained this guy.

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MikeES

This last Saturday was the annual Knapp Garden Tractor Plow Days, we had dozens of tractors out there plowing with 1 and 2 bottom plows.  Most if not all are seasoned plowers, many go to numerous event each year.

75 to 80% of the tractors plowing are hydros!  The tractor I use the most is an AC 710 hydro...as stated above WOT and control ground speed with the hydro.  And the hydro does not get that warm, it will heat up much faster with a lot of back and forth while mowing lawn.

We had from my 10hp up to several 3 cyl, turbo diesels, all with hydros.

 

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mp38allis

Thank you all for your input!! I'm glad to hear my 7117H is gonna kick butt!!. During the course of my workin' years, I fixed mobile cranes and heavy equipment for 14 years. I completely understand the swashplate pump operation. I didn't know how tough the pump was. I appreciate all of the knowledge that is evident on this forum. I hope to be able to add to the group, if not in specifiic piece knowledge, then maybe in theoretical principles. I also spent 25 years as an automotive technician at Ford dealerships, so I have a good understanding of gasoline and diesel engines. I have a great working knowledge of hydraulics and a degree in electricity. If I chime in, I hope to be of help. Thank you all for for giving me information, and I will try to help you all out as well!!

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gwiseman
On 10/27/2018 at 12:28 AM, Chris727 said:

You will do fine. I love the 916H for plowing.  Did a 1/4 acre with it last year. For me, most of my gear drive tractors have manual lift so the hydro with hydraulic lift is an easy choice. 

@Chris727 I can fix you up with a hydrolift for your gear drive..

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gwiseman
11 hours ago, mp38allis said:

Thank you all for your input!! I'm glad to hear my 7117H is gonna kick butt!!. During the course of my workin' years, I fixed mobile cranes and heavy equipment for 14 years. I completely understand the swashplate pump operation. I didn't know how tough the pump was. I appreciate all of the knowledge that is evident on this forum. I hope to be able to add to the group, if not in specifiic piece knowledge, then maybe in theoretical principles. I also spent 25 years as an automotive technician at Ford dealerships, so I have a good understanding of gasoline and diesel engines. I have a great working knowledge of hydraulics and a degree in electricity. If I chime in, I hope to be of help. Thank you all for for giving me information, and I will try to help you all out as well!!

Welcome to SimpletrACtors and glad to have you Mike. Some of us (me) are merely shade tree mechanics so its great to have professional input. 

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Chris727
10 hours ago, gwiseman said:

@Chris727 I can fix you up with a hydrolift for your gear drive..

Have several here to install someday but am not that big of a fan of the units in the FDTs. Fills up the area under the battery and makes it too difficult to access the driveshaft, steering parts, etc, also requires a separate oil change. 

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